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View Diary: Homophobia in the advice columns (228 comments)

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  •  I don't know if she is married... (none)
    ...but I get the impression she is.

    I don't think all bigotry is a choice and often bigotry is not recognized as such by those practicing it.  

    Some people do chose to be bigots but a lot of people are RAISED to be bigots.  These are the people who don't consider it bigotry because it's what they've been raised to think of as righteous and proper.  In many ways that's even sadder than those who know better but choose to hate.

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    by DawnG on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 08:01:24 AM PST

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    •  I would agree (4.00)
      and cut bigots a little slack except for two reasons:

      1. They will never ever choose to cut anyone they hate some slack or make life any easier for them.

      2. It is a choice to love your neighbor and accept them. 100% pure grade A choice. If you can make that choice, and you choose to go the opposite way and hate, you abdicate your right to have your hateful behavior tolerated.

      "I will not trust Bush with the life of one Iraqi."

      by Tamifah on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 08:29:48 AM PST

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      •  there's only one problem... (4.00)
        ...many don't recognize bigotry as "hate".  To them it's just "being right", maybe because they've been raised to believe that their way is the only right way.  Anything contrary to being right is being wrong.  

        Take Ms. Wondering for example.  She most likely doesn't hate her neighbors as people, but has been likely been taught all her life that homosexuality is horribly horribly wrong and unnatural.  It has never occured to her that her petition would be interpreted by her neighbors as, at the very least rude and at the very worse hateful and bigoted.  So she doesn't understand why they are insulted by it and ignore her continued attempts at friendly converstion.  In her mind she's just pointing out what is "right" and asking her nice homo neighbors to respect her feelings.

        Those poor boys were living their lives, building a home they could be proud of, and being a helpful part of the community.  And then they're suddenly be presented with a petition that basicly tells them to stick themselves back in the closet!  It must have seemed like a slap in the face to them.   I feel horrible for them to have to endure this but at the same time I feel very sad for Ms Wondering because she is so utterly clueless to how her actions have hurt the very same people she claimed to like.  For her it's not hate, but an ignorance so deeply ingrained in her that she is uttery unaware of it.

        How sad is that?

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        by DawnG on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 08:58:49 AM PST

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        •  It was wrong (4.00)
          in the South and it's wrong now. Now matter where it is and no matter who is the target.

          I really do understand what you are saying and you have a valid point.

          But she and people like her are wrong and they really do choose not to accept others. Whether because that is because of some disappointment or need in their life I cannot say. But it is still wrong of them.

          "I will not trust Bush with the life of one Iraqi."

          by Tamifah on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 09:01:12 AM PST

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          •  it is wrong... (none)
            ...but until they accept that in themselves (something that requires serious self-reflection which many seem to lack) then they never realize that what they are doing is wrong.  To them they are right and everyone who thinks differently is wrong.  

            And until we can take them out of their point of view long enough for them to see things from the point of view of others, they will continue with their belief that they are right and everyone else is wrong.  That they are so trapped in that mindset is what is so sad.

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            by DawnG on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 09:28:21 AM PST

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          •  ignorance breeds hate (4.00)
            Of course they are wrong. The question is, what do we do about it? From my experience, it's a matter of education.

            "Wondering" got some awful advice from her pastor. Imagine what would have happened if her pastor had told her that her reaction was based on ignorance and she should learn to accept seeing a loving couple express that love no matter what their genders.

            I have met a lot of ignorant people in my life, and I'm glad to say that at least a few of them have changed their attitudes about gay people through knowing me. One young man from Texas came to a summer science program at my college, and didn't find out I was gay until we'd been friends for over a month. Then he had to reconcile all the awful things he'd been told about queers with his personal knowledge of me and how cool he thought I was. Years later he told me that was an important moment in his life, and he thanked me for being open about who I was and teaching him that people are just people, whatever their sexuality.

            That anecdote isn't to make all this about me; it's to show that people's attitudes can change when presented with the right kind of education. Being out is the best thing we can do to help educate people. But I really want to give that pastor and his ilk a piece of my mind for telling that woman to do such a hateful thing. People don't hate naturally - they have to be taught to do so, and the people who do the teaching are responsible for the damage that hate does.

            "Instead of asking what you could do, you ought to have been asking what needs to be done."

            by khaavren on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 09:31:25 AM PST

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            •  Worked with your friend (none)
               who had never KNOWN any gays.But this broad knows these two gentlemen for kind and catring peoiple, and she still rejected them despite their kindness to her.

              Some people can't be helped because their minds are as tightly closed as clamshells--even steaming htem with kindness won't help.  Ignorance is curable.  Blind bigotry is NOT.

              The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

              by irishwitch on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 10:51:18 AM PST

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        •  It's like my mother-in-law (none)
          telling my husband and me that we cannot practice our faith, WIcca, under her roof. She refused to even discuss it with us, jsut  gave us the ultimatum. BLATANT bigotry, but she doesn't see it as bigotry, just as following her faith.  SHe loves US, but she considers our faith threatening (she's a mostly liberal  fundy Christian). I blmae the dam,ned church she goes to to hear the grandchild sing--it's about as rightwing as it gets, and I have fantasies about blowing it up. In fact if the arsonists in AL want to expand their turf a little....but make sure the preacher is inside, please.

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 10:48:57 AM PST

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          •  how's that going irish? (none)
            Have things improved at all?  I still hope you find a better situation for yourself soon.

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            by DawnG on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 12:13:56 PM PST

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            •  Nothing has changed. (none)
              My Dad is seriously considering moving up here, and investing in the house for all 3 of us.  It would be in HIS name.  We'd have space, he'd have company and caretakers, and, while he doesn't understand our religiona d we'd have to go to Mass with him --I don't want an 85 year old man with Parkinson's driving up here--it would be much smoother sailing.

              Essentially we don't talk about the Elephant in the Room.  My husband is at the point where, when Dad dies and we leave the South forever, he wants no contact with his family. Hes the one who was selected to be the Black Sheep, and he is regarded as such. He got a 98 on a math quiz, and he said afterward, "I could get straight As, including an A in the class my sister D got an D in, she will STILL be the smart one."  Yup, that'
              s how it is.  Sometimes it makes me so angry I coul cry over it.  I will stay in touch with hsi Mom no matter what, becasue, despite her ban on WIcca, she is at heart, a good and loving woman, just very limited.

              The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

              by irishwitch on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 12:26:19 PM PST

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      •  Right? (4.00)
        Isn't that "love your neighbor" thing what she's supposed to be learning in that church of hers? I don't remember reading any amendments to the 10 commandments (like, "love your neighbor, unless they're different than you"). Just sayin'

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