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View Diary: 9/12/2001: Hunter S. Thompson Saw It Coming (254 comments)

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  •  I read the Joe Flatley link (4.00)
    The Bandar Bush stuff reminded me that the Saudi Royal family basically owns Aspen.  I was there once, I was told the Saudis totally rebuilt Aspen airport so it would accomdate their 747 jets.

    Also Bandar funded the Aspen Institute. The main building there is named for him.

    Not sure i full get the Bandar Thompson connection

    •  I lived in Aspen and worked there as a journalist (4.00)
      The Saudis did NOT pay to rebuild the airport
      Bandar was NOT Hunter S. Thompson's "next door neighbor."
      And I knew Hunter S. Thompson. It was suicide. He would be laughing at these silly theories, as I am.

      If you don't want it printed, don't let it happen.

      by EZ writer on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 04:38:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Laughing his ass off, (none)
        But at the same time, inventing even crazier ones of his own.

        He liked explosions, and he liked his shotgun.  It was the way he wanted to go.

        Sit at the feet of the master long enough and they start to smell. - John Sauget
        -8.00, -6.05

        by Jensequitur on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 04:48:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Any you know this because (4.00)
        It was suicide.

        Proof?

        He did seem like the kind of guy who would be early in seeing though the official 9/11 story and had the guts to speak up.

        That said, I was not in the room when it happened.

      •  Who then paid to rebuild . . . (none)
        Aspen Airport to accomodate 747 jets.  No commercial airlines fly 747s into Aspen.  Only the Saudis fly in on 747s.

        So if the Saudis didn't pay, who did?

        •  it was probably done on some... (none)
          national security grant...

          In loving memory of Sadie, my camping, hiking & swimming friend. August 9, 1995 - January 23, 2005. She was the very best.

          by jhwygirl on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 05:39:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I dunno, maybe (none)
          Ben Whitehorse Campbell?

          Glen Campbell?

          George W. Bush, he has one...

          I got it...Jenna, she likes to party on weekends.

          In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. M.L.King, 1929-1968

          by captainlaser on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 06:40:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't believe the Aspen airport (4.00)
          can accommodate a 747 - even a Saudi one.  Last I heard Bandar was still flying the big jet to Grand Junction, CO and then taking a smaller, chartered jet (Lear, etc.) to Aspen.  
        •  747s? (4.00)
          The Aspen Airport cannot handle 747s. You are mistaken.

          If you don't want it printed, don't let it happen.

          by EZ writer on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 07:28:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't pester these nutjobs with facts! (3.00)
            My personal favorite is the WTC 7 'conspiracy' where a 'controlled demolition' was carried out with none of the weeks of pre-demolition, column drilling, shape charge placement, and wiring up of hundreds of feet of detcord throughout the structure, all during the working day in a building with thousands of people going to and fro! Funny how no one reported all this activity (over many days) which is necessary for any successful controlled demolition:

            After two (2) months of preparation, CDI's 13 person crew needed seven (7) days to place 1,590 linear shaped charges totaling 595 lb. of explosives on steel columns on 11 levels of the 27-story structure.

            Pure and complete idiocy, and a real shame that the pushers of these conspiracies seem to be blind to the REAL and documented conspiracies endemic to this administration.

            Must be the same people who have so little knowledge and curiosity of the strangeness of the actual universe that they grasp onto crap like UFO abductions and "faked" moon landings.

            I really wish they'd get the fuck off our side.

            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 12:25:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's EXACTLY the point (4.00)
              If a demolition takes so long to prepare how did Silverstein have it "pulled" on the afternoon of 9/11?  
              •  Because "pulled" meant (none)
                "pull all my people out because this mortally damaged building is going to fall down."

                I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 09:51:26 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Not at all (none)
                  what "pulled' meant was Pull the building.
                  Here is his exact quote.

                  "I remember getting a call from the, uh, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "You know, we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is, is pull IT. And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

                  What this was is a serious mistake by Silverstein that was caught on tape, there is no mistaking what he meant by "pulled" here. Not unless you are delusional.

                  •  Depends on how you are inclined (none)
                    to apprehend the universe. When I hear that quote, to me, he's talking about pulling the crew from the building.

                    Besides, you've got your facts wrong anyway, about "pull it" somehow being slang among demolition crews:

                    http://www.911myths.com/...

                    "Larry Silverstein is not a demolition contractor, and neither was the fire department chief, so why should we assume they'd be using slang demolition terms?"

                    Damn good point.

                    I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                    by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 01:40:22 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Oh and that (none)
                      Crappy website you keep proselytizing "911myth.com" is just a Republican shill site run by this dingaling.

                      Mike Williams

                      http://papundits.com/...

                      You have been completely owned by the evidence and you can not respond with a single answer to how or even WHY WTC 7 Collapsed at all let alone at Free Fall speed in its own footprint and with virtually no damage done to it.

                      Go drink some more koolaid.

                      •  What on earth do the site creator's (none)
                        leanings have to do with the FACTS? If the facts are inconvenient to your argument, I guess you have to go Ad Hominem.

                        What about the CDI accounts of demolitions they have done, and the fact that they couldn't possibly have been done on WTC 7 in the timeframe claimed by your tinfoil buddies? Here's an account from their own website of the prep for a far smaller building than WTC 7:

                        After two (2) months of preparation, CDI's 13 person crew needed seven (7) days to place 1,590 linear shaped charges totaling 595 lb. of explosives on steel columns on 11 levels of the 27-story structure.

                        It is beyond dispute that the prep work necessary to do a "controlled demolition" takes a lot longer than you or your tinfoil buddies are claiming - who do we believe, Controlled Demolition Incorporated, which is cited by 911myths.com, or you?

                        Let me guess - "CDI are a bunch of murdering Bush-defending shills!" Right.

                        And if the prep work wasn't done, than it can by no definition have been a "controlled demolition."

                        I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                        by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 06:52:53 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

            •  Actually there dimwit (none)
              All of the WTC buildings had a power shut down Sept 7-9th to supposedly fix a "cabling issue" also the Bomb sniffing dogs which are normally there were taken away.
              this left at least 36 hours where pleny coul dcome in and set whatever charges they wish.

              and who was part of the Security org that was in charge? Why MARVIN P BUSH of course the Emperors brother. Coincedence?

              •  If you think three days (none)
                is enough time to do all that work, then you, sir, are something of a dimwit as well.

                Have you ever assisted with the kind of pre-demolition required to bring buildings of that size down in a controlled fashion?

                Hint: It involves a LOT more than just "placing charges." Pre-tensioning cable installation alone would take weeks for buildings that size.

                Do you even know what you're talking about?

                I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 12:57:56 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  It (none)
                  has been proven that it would only take about 10 hours using 10 men, and the preplanning needed to figure out what to place where etc they could have planned for years.
                  It usually takes about 2 weeks or so to take a building down.

                  I know EXACTLY what Im talking about

                  •  Oh (none)
                    and since you know so much then it should be easy for someone with your qualifications to make a cool $1 MILLION with this contest.

                    http://reopen911.org/...

                    You can thank me later for the $1 Million.

                  •  "Proven" by who? (none)
                    And by what process? And has this "proof" undergone peer review? In what engineering publication?

                    I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                    by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 01:25:01 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Oh (none)
                      Fire Engineering magazine, the most respected 125-year old journal of record among America's fire engineers and firefighters.

                      http://www.americanfreepress.net/...

                      You have made up your mind for whatever reason to defend this mass murdering administration, thats your problem.

                      Myself, the evidence is overwhelming that they are guilty, and idiots like you are easily debunked.

                      •  Not peer-reviewed! (none)
                        Why does this not surprise me?

                        Also, you might want to rethink the position that anyone who points out evidence to contradict your pet theory is "defending this mass murdering administration."

                        Grow the fuck up, man.

                        •  LOL (none)
                          Fire engineering magazine is not peer reviewed eh? ROTFL

                          Nither of you Bush sycophants have given ONE answer to ANY question i have asked.

                          You cant, you have been OWNED.

                          This administration is GUILTY, they have also been found guilty of War Crimes and crimes agaisnt humanity by 3 War tribunals.

                          •  Do you even know what the term means? (none)
                            There is no indication that the magazine is peer-reviewed, at least not on their web site.

                            You seem also to think that this is inconsequential.

                            I suggest you do some more "research" with whatever substances you have been smoking.

                          •  Get a grip (none)
                            Again, explain how WTC collapsed at free fall speed?

                            Still waiting

                          •  lots of (none)
                            Peer reviewed articles in Fire Engineering Mag.

                            http://fe.pennnet.com/...

                            It is the most respected magazine/journal regarding Firefighting

                          •  Short answer - they didn't fall that fast (none)
                            Stage one in establishing this claim is to calculate the actual time it took for the towers to fall, but dust clouds obscuring the end of the collapse make this difficult. Coming up with a final figure involves a degree of estimation, which is probably why the times you'll find online range from 8.4 to 15 seconds.

                            The rest of the article shows that this frequently made 'fall time' claim is at worst bogus, at best badly estimated.

                            Looked at all together, then, we have a collapse start time of 8 seconds, the end at 22 seconds, a 14 second collapse time in total (and with some reason to believe that's an underestimate). There's no way we can claim split-second accuracy, but then that's not the point. The aim here is to use this method as a check on the video estimates, and we think it clearly shows the 8.4 second end of the spectrum as very unlikely, while 15 seconds and over looks distinctly plausible.

                            You have yet to debunk any of these analyses, which are far more believable than some vast conspiracy involving literally thousands of evildoers. It's as paranoid as Dumbya's childlike worldview.

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:04:59 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Bullshit (none)
                            cant answer the question so you deny the facts. LOL

                            You sure you arent a republican?

                            http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/...

                            BTW doesn't even matter if you choose to believe it was 15 seconds, which obviously it wasn't, those towers still could not have possibly fell in 15 seconds unless it was controlled demolition.

            •  WTC 7 (none)
              "I really wish they'd get the fuck off our side."

              And I wish people like you would at least believe your lying eyes.

              So just to humor you, lets say WTC 7 was not taken down "Pulled" by Controlled Demolition.

              Mkay, now please explain how a 47 story building that was overbuilt, extremely strong, so much so that the DOD/SEC/FBI/CIA and Guiliani all had offices and a control bunker there.
              How did this building manage to completely collapse in its own footprint in 6.6 seconds (Free Fall Speed, which BTW is IMPOSSIBLE in any way except Controlled Demolition.) when the only damage to it was 2 small fires on the 7th and 11th floors?
              Also explain if you will how the Penthouse on top collapses first even though no damage at all is above the 12th floor, explain the OBVIOUS squibs blowing out of several windows right up the building like a zipper right as the building is collapsing.

              Would love to hear it, I need a good laugh, LOL

              •  Allow me introduce you to Occam's Razor (none)
                Mkay, now please explain how a 47 story building that was overbuilt, extremely strong, so much so that the DOD/SEC/FBI/CIA and Guiliani all had offices and a control bunker there.

                If building codes are followed, all buildings are "overbuilt" and "extremely strong." It's called Engineering Safety Factor. The fact that there was some sort of operations center there proves nothing.

                You nutjobs are the ones making the Extraordinary Claims, so you must provide the Extraordinary Evidence, not me. I'm afraid innuendo doesn't cut it.

                How did this building manage to completely collapse in its own footprint in 6.6 seconds (Free Fall Speed, which BTW is IMPOSSIBLE in any way except Controlled Demolition.) when the only damage to it was 2 small fires on the 7th and 11th floors?

                How was the 6.6 number obtained? How was it measured? Were there absolute referents put on several points on the building, along with using a known distance scale to measure the fall of various points of the building? Measured to what accuracy range? Where's the upper and lower boundaries of this measurement?

                Oh, you used TV footage to measure this, taken from not very well defined positions, angles or zoom factors.

                Sorry to say that you have fallen for this stuff hook, line, and sinker. Get your basic facts straight by reading 9/11 Myths. I haven't got time to take you through remedial logic.

                I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 01:22:10 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  LOL (none)
                  Then how long did it take for the building to collpase? LOL
                  6.7 secs? 6.8? makes zero difference actually as it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for any building to collpase that fast unless all the structural beam & Columns are taken out in controlled demolition.

                  You just an idiot Cult of Bush fool.

                  That crap website is GOPaganda BS

                  •  Yes, the final proof of a nutjob (none)
                    "anyone who disputes my delusion is a part of it all!"

                    I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                    by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 01:42:49 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Go fuck yourself (none)
                      /ignore

                      You did not answer even ONE question I asked BTW, as usual it is impossible to explain how WTC 7 collapsed so quickly or AT ALL for that matter.

                      Done wasting my time on an asshole

                      •  How mature. (none)
                        Yes, we're all shills around here.

                        Yawn.

                        I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                        by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 03:29:15 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  How (none)
                          Did WTC 7 collapse AT ALL?

                          Simple question.

                          There was virtually no damage, only 2 small fires and no Steel structure building has ever collpased due to fire, EVER!

                          The FACT that it collpased at free fall speed proves irrefutably that it was Controlled Demolition.

                          Your pathetic shill of a website is meaningless drivel, just answer the question.

                          You know you cant.

                          •  NIST has already got the report up (none)
                            Regarding the two tallest towers here and their report for WTC seven apparently is still in work.

                            Why don't you wait for their results, and also, you never answered the question of why some of the foremost building demolition experts say, on their own website, that preparation for controlled demolition takes a hell of a lot longer than you or any of these conspiracy theroy sites say. I guess they're all shills, oh my, how sad for you.

                            Care to explain that? Here's an excerpt of the NIST report, BTW. I suppose everyone in that department is in on the conspiracy, too, though. Heh.

                            One of the four main objectives of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) investigation of the collapse of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers was to determine why and how the two towers collapsed. Events that played a significant role in the structural performance of the towers were the aircraft impact, the rapid ignition of fires on multiple floors, the growth and spread of fires and the structural weakening resulting from effects of high temperatures. The passive fire protection applied to the steel structural components in the WTC towers was investigated to provide information on the in place condition of the fire protection before and after aircraft impact. Standard fire resistance tests were conducted to establish the appropriate classification (fire resistance rating) of the original design of the WTC floor system and to develop insight into the structural performance of the composite steel and concrete floor system under exposure to a standard fire. Results of simulations of the aircraft impacts were used to predict damage to the structure, fire protection, and partition walls in the path of the debris field. Characterization of the temperatures of the structural components, determined from simulated WTC fires, allowed the calculation of the performance of major subsystems constituting the structural system of the towers including the core framing, the exterior wall (columns and spandrels), and full tenant floors. Insights gained from these analyses were used, in turn, to formulate and execute nonlinear, temperature-dependent finite element analyses of global structural systems to predict the collapse sequence of each tower. The structural analyses were guided, and where possible validated, by observations made from the review of thousands of photographs and video recordings. This report covers the characterization of the conditions of the WTC towers before the attacks, their weakening due to the aircraft impacts, the response of the structural systems to the subsequent growth and spread of fires, and the progression of local failures that led ultimately to the total collapse of both towers.
                          •  First off (none)
                            The NIST report if FULL of errors and BS that has been completely debunked.

                            There were no "high Temp" fires that is a fallacy, the fires were relatively cool burning as can be clearly seen from the thick Black smoke and soot, a HOT fire (over 1300degrees) produces little to no soot and white to light gray smoke.
                            The floors did NOT "pancake" that has been proven to be IMPOSSIBLE especially if you think its going to pancake in under 9 seconds (Free Fall speed) that is 100% IMPOSSIBLE and goes against the laws of motion.
                            The planes did not do that much damage either and the towers were designed to take "Multiple hits" from fully loaded 707s, and only 2 floors were on fire, even the floor the plane hit you can see people IN the hole the plane left in the building and they are just standing there, so OBVIOUSLY even that floor is barely on fire and was certainly not very hot, no where even close to hot enough to weaken UL listed ASTM E119 construction grade steel which is guaranteed to withstand in excess of 2000 degrees for many hours.

                            As for preparation for controlled Demolition it takes several weeks of "planning" which can be done without a soul knowing anything, they could have spent YEARS doing that, but the actual placement could have easily been done in the amount of time they were powered down.
                            All of this has already been debunked.

                            and you can shove your tude up your ass.
                            How sad for you.

                            http://www.physics.byu.edu/...

                            http://video.google.com/...

                            http://www.911blogger.com/...

                            http://911review.com/...

                            Pancake "hypothesis" is 100% debunked here;
                            http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/...

                            I have researched this for about 2 years now and am 100% certain this administration is complicit in it, there is no other possibility.

                          •  So, where'd you get (none)
                            your civil engineering degree, then?

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 08:39:00 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  same place (none)
                            You got yours
                          •  That's funny... (none)
                            I don't recall ever saying I had one! Mine's in another flavor - mechanical. Louisiana Tech, 1994.

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 08:46:43 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Neither did i (none)
                            and Mine is MS in Environmental Science Stanford 1984...
                          •  Let's just cut the shit (none)
                            Do you believe human beings walked on the moon in 1969?

                            It's the best litmus for lunacy.

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 07:24:47 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Obviously they did (none)
                            I , unlike you believe my eyes.

                            Anyone that can look at the controlled demolition of those 3 towers and not see the clear squibs of high explosives going off is either blind or brainwashed.

                            The videos are clear as a bell.

                          •  You must not have looked (none)
                            at the footage, because if you did, you would see that these "squibs" are "going off" AFTER the building has already begun falling. It's cracking of outside facade and windows blowing out as the collapse buckles the structure.

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 08:37:19 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  BS (none)
                            There are squibs blowing out windows as much as 40 floors down from the collapsing building.

                            Also there are MANY firefighters that ALL have said they say several explosions taking floors out, they are lying also I guess.

                            Yep these guys are lying to you right?

                            http://www.letsroll911.org/...

                          •  All these people are lying too (none)

                            PARAMEDIC DANIEL RIVERA:

                            Q. WHAT DID YOU HEAR? WHAT DID YOU SEE? A. It was a frigging noise at first. At first I thought it was a professional demolition, where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear Pop Pop Pop Pop. That's exactly what I thought it was when I heard that frigging noise. That's when I saw the building coming down.
                            ---------------

                            Stephen Gregory , Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.) flashes, explosions p 14

                            ...I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was.  but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.

                            Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?
                            A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy,
                            ------------------
                            Member of the FDNY:
                            "We were trying to get some of the people out, but then there was secondary explosions and then subsequent collapses."
                            --------------
                            Firefighter:
                            "As we were getting our gear on and making our way to the stairway, there was heavy duty explosions."
                            -----------
                            September 12, 2001, New York City, People.com

                            Louie Cacchioli, 51, is a firefighter assigned to Engine 47 in Harlem.

                            We were the first ones in the second tower after the plane struck. I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building....
                            --------

                            DEPUTY COMMISSIONER THOMAS FlTZPATRlCK FDNY

                            We looked up at the building straight up, we were that close. All we saw was a puff of smoke coming from about 2 thirds of the way up. Some people thought it was an explosion. My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.
                            =====
                            Witness / 9-11 survivor:
                            "...and then all of a sudden it started like... it sounded like gunfire... you know, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and then all of a sudden three big explosions."
                            --------------
                            9/11 Survivor Describes Multiple Explosions

                            "There were explosions going off everywhere. I was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons. I was afraid to go down Church Street toward Broadway, but I had to do it. I ended up on Vesey Street. There was another explosion. And another. I didn't know where to run."

                            Source: "Teresa Veliz: A Prayer to Die Quickly and Painlessly," in September 11.
                            -----------------

                            9/11 hero, William Rodriguez, who was the last person out of the north tower, states that there was a massive explosion in the North Tower BEFORE the plane hit:

                            "When I heard the sound of the explosion, the floor beneath my feet vibrated, the walls started cracking and it everything started shaking

                            "Seconds after the first massive explosion below in the basement still rattled the floor, I hear another explosion from way above... Although I was unaware at the time, this was the airplane hitting the tower, it occurred moments after the first explosion.

                            "I know there were explosives placed below the trade center.

                            "I have tried to tell my story to everybody, but nobody wants to listen. It is very strange what is going on here in supposedly the most democratic country in the world. In my home country of Puerto Rico and all the other Latin American countries, I have been allowed to tell my story uncensored. But here, I can't even say a word.

                            "I met with the 9/11 Commission behind closed doors and they essentially discounted everything I said regarding the use of explosives to bring down the north tower.

                            "And I contacted NIST previously four times without a response. Finally, this week I asked them before they came up with their conclusion that jet fuel brought down the towers, if they ever considered my statements or the statements of any of the other survivors who heard the explosions. They just stared at me with blank faces and didn't have any answers."

                            ======
                            Edward Cachia FDNY WTC2 explosions before collapse: "It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit. . . [W]e originally had thought there was like an internal detonation, explosives, because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down."
                            --------------
                            Assistant Fire Commissioner: "I thought . . . before . . . No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. . . . I . . . saw a flash flash flash . . . [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they . . . blow up a building. . . ?"

                          •  They can claim whatever they want (none)
                            Yeah, snapping steel and concrete can sound like an explosion. So does a 4x8 sheet of plywood falling on the floor.

                            And you know, there are cases where witnesses SWORE they saw a plane's engines on fire before impact, but later video evidence shows otherwise. People color their memories with all sorts of crap. Anecdotal recounts are NOT RELIABLE.

                            But the best evidence that explosives were used in large numbers - you do say that lots of explosives were used, right? Hunderds of pounds, it would have to be, right? would be a spectrographic analysis of materials from the rubble. This would reveal the explosive used.

                            Has this been done? What were the results?

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 09:37:42 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  LOL (none)
                            You have a NON answer for everything .

                            you know what also sounds like huge explosions?

                            Huge explosions do.

                            So hundreds of people are all dreaming right? They are ALL mistaken?

                            and that evidence was taken away as fast as possible and nobody was allowed to touch it, put on ships and sent to China, plus fire fighters put under a gag order.
                            There never will be results, they made sure of that.

                            So why exactly are so vehemently defending this administration, or at least their debunked BS conspiracy theory?

                            I have always thought this is strange, people that otherwise hate Dubya, fully believe he lied to take us to war, lies everyday about something, is a total lunatic, YET when it comes to this, even with overwhelming evidence right in front of them, act just like you are right now.
                            Flatly refuse to even entertain the idea for one second and completely deny all the evidence and their lying eyes.

                            Why?

                          •  Put on ships and sent to China? (none)
                            That would be really funny if it weren't so sad.

                            And of course there never seems to be any evidence of your claims, because it was all conveniently destroyed in furtherance of this conspiracy, which, because there's a conspiracy, has no evidence.

                            It's called a self-reinforcing delusion. A form of mental illness I suggest you seek treatment for.

                            You must get very dizzy from all the logical circles you find yourself trapped in.

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:11:05 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And if all the firefighters (none)
                            are "under a gag order" as you claim, then why are they singing like canaries with all their explosion claims?

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:13:33 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Those were before the gag order was issued (none)
                          •  Of course, how silly of me. (none)

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:31:40 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes how silly of you (none)
                            Also, Isaac directly addressed a gag order that has been placed on firemen and police officers in New York.

                            "It's amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs," said Isaac, regarding the FBI gag order placed on law enforcement and fire department officials, preventing them from openly talking about any inside knowledge of 9-11. There is more information related to Isaac circulating in on-line and print reports, so here again we are hearing first-hand evidence from individuals who were on the scene, such as live witness William Rodriguez, saying that the World Trade Center towers were brought down not by the airliner's impact or the resulting jet fuel fires, but instead by a deliberately executed controlled demolition.

                            Tragically, due to heavy-handed pressure from officials at the city, state and federal levels, we are still not hearing the entire story.

                            Researcher Vincent Sammartino, who was also at the WTC "open grave site" on the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2005, wrote the following on the on-line news web site APFN: "I just got back from Ground Zero. People know the truth. Half of the police and firemen were coming up to us and telling us that they know that 9-11 was an inside job. They were told not to talk about it. But they were supporting what we were doing. I had tears in my eyes."

                            http://www.americanfreepress.net/...

                            and again I back up what I say.

                            again you look foolish

                          •  And as usual (none)
                            you have grand claims but the physical evidence has been "shippied to China."

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:57:08 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  hardly (none)
                            every single thing I have said I have back up.
                            You on the other hand have backed up NOTHING and cant even answer ONE single question.

                            http://www.china.org.cn/...

                            again I own you on the facts, again you look foolish

                          •  If you think (none)
                            quoting conspiracy nutjob black helicopter websites constitutes "fact" then you need to bone up on the definition of the term.

                            Absolutely nothing you have quoted proves that the towers were deliberately destroyed by anything other than 2 767s.

                            The sites you quote contain lots of conjecture, speculation, and innuendo, and even more claims of evidence which would support the grand delusions, but this evidence has been conveniently spirited away under cover of night by some vast x-files style conspiracy.

                            Come back when you have some actual evidence, as documented by more reputable sources.

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:55:05 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The fact (none)
                            That it is absolutely Impossible for any building to collapse at Free fall speed unless under Controlled Demolition is all I need.
                            Rest is moot.

                            and you still refuse to answer my question.

                            How did these buildings fall at free fall speed?

                            Owned again

                          •  Name one. (none)
                            Who was in a position to tell the difference between a buckling column pulverizing concrete and an explosion. Because they're indistinguishable without post-event forensic examination.

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 09:31:52 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Did you watch the video? (none)
                            The "explosions" happen after it falls.

                            End of your theory, I'm afraid.

                            I am become Dubya, Destroyer of Words...

                            by Swampfoot on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 09:39:13 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are clearly (none)
                            Delusional.

                            Yes I have watched all the videos hundreds of times, ALL of them show squibs from high explosives as clear as a bell, unmistakable.

                          •  Its like this (none)
                            YOU flatly refuse to accept the FACTS, plain and simple.

                            Learn what the hell you are talking about, watch all the videos I listed, read the hundreds of articles I have read on this subject, then get back to me when you have a clue.

                            No need to continue this circular argument you remind me of some creationist nutjob defending your insane belief.

      •  I don't buy the conspiracy stuff either. (3.60)
             After a lifetime of drug and alcohol abuse he was probably very sick.

        "Knowledge is good" Emil Faber(Founder of Faber college)

        by irate on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 05:27:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you... (4.00)
        few could be more accused of wearing a tin foil hat more than Hunter....and I agree, even though I didn't know him, he'd be laughing at this...

        Christ...he wasn't even alone in the house.

        BTW, I wear a tin foil hat, proudly I might say, for lots of things, including stolen elections...

        May his soul rest in peace.

        In loving memory of Sadie, my camping, hiking & swimming friend. August 9, 1995 - January 23, 2005. She was the very best.

        by jhwygirl on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 05:35:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  If you were there at the time... (none)
        why didn't you say so already???
    •  The Aspens (none)
      are connected at the roots...

      Democrats are here to remind us that life is unfair. Republicans are here to make sure it is.

      by spitonmars on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 06:11:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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