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View Diary: Christofascist Neocon Zombie Brigade on Patrol (326 comments)

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  •  A small quibble (none)
    You know, men are just not up to the task to "get into the know" about this", so let's leave them out of it, seriously.

    I disagree with this in a way -- I agree that the decision should be made by the woman whose body it is, no one else. But I think that a father has the right to know it's going on, give advice, and discuss options with the woman, although she must have the final decision; on the other hand I do not support giving an unrelated woman, such as Janice Rogers Brown, any say over my body either.

    It's not "women" that need to make this decision. "Women" poll more pro-life than "men" do. No human being has the right to make this decision except the woman whose body is affected; no one even has the right to have input into her decision except her doctor, the father of the fetus, and possibly her parents (I go back and forth on parental notification -- if the parents aren't dysfunctional it's actually a good idea, but so many parents suck...) I don't want to go around saying "it's a decision for women, not men" because it's not a decision for women either, unless it's their body being affected right now. My grandma doesn't have the right to tell you if you can have an abortion or not any more than my dad does.

    •  Oh, I didn't mean to say what you read (none)
      out of my words. I should have indicated that I tried to close the comment on a bit lighter note by using words like "to get into the know" about it. My English is not good enough to use the right words to make the little chuckle with which I thought I was saying this shine through.


      It's not "women" that need to make this decision. "Women" poll more pro-life than "men" do. No human being has the right to make this decision except the woman whose body is affected;

      I agree with the last part (the sentence in bold) and it was what I meant to say, I just had expressed myself sloppily. What I meant to say is not that "women" should decide over other women's bodies, but meant to say that "women" should be the ones, who decide over their own bodies alone and not make decisions "by all women for all women".  

      Anyhow, but I have also a little something against one point.

      If women poll more pro-life than man, I think, there are reasons responsible for it that are not related to gender per se. I have not seen any Western European countries where you have extremist, fundamentalist female pro-lifers like in the US.

      So, this specific phenomenon seems to be US specific and I think is related to cultural differences with regards to relationship issues between men and women in the US. Quite frankly, the fundamentalist women here seem pretty much mind-manipulated (by the men with whom they surround themselves and/or are dependent on).

      It's just in no way explicable why European, even Italian Catholic women don't get extremist over the issue of abortion. Here in the US fundamental Christians or whoever they are show quite pathological symptoms of "being under extreme influence".

      So, I would not suggest therefore that you give those men, who have already brought the mind-set of these women under their manipulative control, more chances to manipulate them further to give them "much say". It's easy to influence the women towards pleasing and appeasing whatever the man wants from her.  I don't want that influence abused, especially because a woman will struggle with the decision a lot all by herself. The last thing she needs is someone to increase her possible doubts and indecisiveness. It's her who should decide whose advice she wants to listen to and not be forced to discuss it with the man who "donated the sperm".

      If you have the easy case, where a couple just accidentically gets itself into a pregnancy they hadn't planned, of course I think they both should talk about it and she should have the final say.

      If a teenager gets herself into the situation of an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy and needs to make the decision, she should per law inform her mother, I would think.

      I wouldn't force her to inform her father. The mother can decide if it's responsible to inform the father as well, because the mother knows, if there was abuse within the family or incest going on or not. The only reason, why one would demand the daughter to inform her father.  So, if it comes to parental notification I would think it's sufficient for the daughter to inform her mother and talk it through with her.

      In manipulative relationships I would encourage the women to do "what she thinks is right" in secrecy. There is no other way to get out of the control of a freakish, aggressive manipulator.

      I wouldn't want to give the father of the fetus any influence on her unless they are married, the father is committed to take over fatherhood responsibilities (and has a proven record that he has done that in the past). The doctor definitely should advise, but not influence with regards to the morality of her decision.

      I really think a woman should rely on herself for that decision as much as possible. It's tough, but I think it's absolutely necessary. In the end SHE has to "live with her decision". It must be her own decision exclusively for that reason alone.

      Sorry for another long comment, I wished I could express myself more precise and shorter, but often I don't find a way to say it with fewer words.

      A country is not only what it does - it is also what it puts up with, what it tolerates. - Kurt Tucholsky

      by mimi on Mon Feb 27, 2006 at 08:15:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  arghh, I always drop words or don't keep (none)
        singular and pluras consistent within a sentence. I am sorry, I hope you can nevertheless understand what I wanted to say.

        A country is not only what it does - it is also what it puts up with, what it tolerates. - Kurt Tucholsky

        by mimi on Mon Feb 27, 2006 at 08:22:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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