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View Diary: Jesus was a Hindu (78 comments)

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  •  Strange Comment (4+ / 0-)
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    Irfo, Deward Hastings, kraant, Kingsmeg

    So, the history and diversity of the early Jesus Movement is a useless historical and theological exercise?  Wierd.

    Democrats are the party of those who are working, those who have finished working, and those who want to work. -- Elizabeth Edwards

    by philgoblue on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 02:34:46 PM PDT

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    •  It is to Christians . . . (1+ / 0-)
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      kraant

      They don't care about the real Jesus . . .

    •  'Early Jesus Movement'? (5+ / 0-)
      What's that?

      As I stated: "While it is an interesting document for people studying history of obscure religious sects, it has never been a text accepted within the mainline Christian tradition."

      I find history interesting.  Therefore, I wouldn't call history "useless."  

      If you are a Christian, however, studying heretical texts is a useless "theological exercise."  Whether those texts were authored by the Gnostics in the 3rd century or the Mormons in the 19th century, they are not part of the mainline Christian tradition.

      The author of this diary is claiming that the Gnostic text offers an insight into Jesus, as opposed to what it does offer, an insight into Gnosticism.

      •  Fine (2+ / 0-)
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        kraant, Kingsmeg

        Stick your head in the sand.  Enjoy.

        What is "mainstream Christianity"?

        Scholars use "Jesus Movement" all the time.  If you were knowledgeable, you'd know that.

        Democrats are the party of those who are working, those who have finished working, and those who want to work. -- Elizabeth Edwards

        by philgoblue on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 03:01:17 PM PDT

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        •  Actually, (5+ / 0-)

          I think cityduck has an excellent point here:

          The author of this diary is claiming that the Gnostic text offers an insight into Jesus, as opposed to what it does offer, an insight into Gnosticism.

          The Judas Gospel really doesn't tell us anything new about the historical Jesus, especially since we already had a pretty good idea of what was in the Judas Gospel, given that it's discussed in the 4th century at the Nicean council, and many of its tenets survived well into the 20th century (see, for example, Robert Graves' King Jesus and The White Goddess).  

          The importance in this text lies in its clarification of some aspects of 3rd century gnosticism - that's where scholarly focus is going to be.  Will some individuals use it to expand their personal vision of Jesus?  Possibly, although they have a good 20-something gospels to choose from already.  Will any religious groups change their doctrines according to Judas?   Probably not.

          It reminds me of that scene in Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov, in which the Grand Inquisitor tells Jesus not to speak, since anything He says will force us to modify a doctrine that's been centuries in the making.

          Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

          by pico on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 03:09:16 PM PDT

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          •  Exactly, but that's not the point I'm refering to (1+ / 0-)
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            kraant

            I'm refering to:

            If you are a Christian, however, studying heretical texts is a useless "theological exercise."  

            Which is great for him.  

            But as a spiritual person looking to gain insights, it's vital to understand the history and development of this important movement.  And the same goes for a historian.

            Democrats are the party of those who are working, those who have finished working, and those who want to work. -- Elizabeth Edwards

            by philgoblue on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 03:14:17 PM PDT

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            •  Fair enough point; (1+ / 0-)
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              kraant

              I think ultimately the difference will be between those who subscribe to a more personal faith and those who subscribe to a more community-driven faith.  The former will find a lot more of interest in Judas, I think.

              Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

              by pico on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 03:26:51 PM PDT

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            •  Hmmmm. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kraant, Distaste for Dissent

              But as a spiritual person looking to gain insights, it's vital to understand the history and development of this important movement.

               

              Fair enough.  The development of mainline Christianity is a worthy topic.  And, I suppose, you can learn something about it's doctrines by learning about the doctrines it considers heresy.  Still, however, from a theological perspective, which is the question you asked above, there is no value to reading heresy.  You don't need to read the Book of Mormon to be a good Christian, nor do you need to read Gnostic gospels.

        •  What is 'mainstream Christianity'? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kraant, Distaste for Dissent

          Is this a joke?

          It sure ain't Arianism or Marcion or Gnosticism.

          As "knowledgeable Scholars" use the term in discussing early Christian history, it refers to the dominant "Catholic sect" and its important off-shoots or ancient peers (Syrian Orthodoxy, Greek Orthodoxy, Coptic Christians) who all subscribe to essentially the same compilation of canon in line with the consensus that developed in the second through fourth centuries.    

          •  No (1+ / 0-)
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            kraant

            not a joke.  Wanted you to be more clear.  So you refer to Pauline Christianity.  Great.

            Democrats are the party of those who are working, those who have finished working, and those who want to work. -- Elizabeth Edwards

            by philgoblue on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 03:16:22 PM PDT

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