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View Diary: Fitzgerald Has Proof That Bush and Cheney Were At Center of NIE-Plamegate Leaks (Poll)! (367 comments)

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  •  Not according to legal scholars (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tikkun, mataliandy, HoundDog

    The President can declassify any information. The only problem is that from what I've heard, the report from which the info came remained classified. Heard this on one of the news analysis.

    Now if the VP denied under oath that he didn't know where it came from...whoops, that may be a problem. In the case of the Prez, he was (surprise!) once again at least caught lying to the public.

    Dubya: often wrong, but never in doubt.

    by auapplemac on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 07:47:46 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  But remember the key crime in described in this (15+ / 0-)

      diary is Obstruction of Justice for lying to Patrick Fitzggerald about their knowledge.

      Just as Libby is trying to throw up a lot of smoke and dust to obscure the fact that he was indicted for perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false statements to a grand jury, not disclosure of classifeid material.

      The  same is true here.

      I would appreciate out all of your help in keeping this point focused and reflected back into the MSM tomorrow.

      The administration want to make this about whether or not the President has the right to declassify things.  This is a worthhwhile debate and Schumer as challenged on this.

      But what we need to refocus attention on is the coverup.

      Just like with Nixon.  It wasn't the original crime but the cover-up.

      Bush has been caught in an obstruction of justice trap.

      Just as with Libby.  The orginal crimes are irrelevent.  Libby and Rove and Cheney and Bush lied to the Federal Prosecutors about their knowledge.

      Nothing else is necessary to prove.

      Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

      by HoundDog on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 08:08:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bush: (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mataliandy, HoundDog, KenBee, KBueno

        Future unindicted co-conspirator and Impeached Preznit.  Out you go, underachieving, uneducated idiot!  

        Cheney: Future Convict, ready for Hard Time.

        Rove: Ready for the Unemployment Line.

        God, please let it come true!

        -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

        by sunbro on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 10:11:28 PM PDT

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      •  Absolutely ----------- The Lies: (7+ / 0-)

        Lied to widows and orphans
        Lied to active and ex-military
        Lied to the dead and wounded
        Lied to other Republicans, both in and out of government
        Lied to the elected representatives of the other party
        Lied to foreign government leaders
        Lied to the media
        Lied to law enforcement officials
        Lied to the voters, before an election.

        Despite the obvious parallels:
        This isn't anything like Iran-Contra
        This isn't anything like Clinton's lies and obfuscations
        This isn't anything like Nixon

                It's worse.

        People have died, lots of people.
        People have had their lives and bodies ruined
        Time and treasure has been wasted that was so needed elsewhere

        It's a short moment, but now is the time to act to stop the damage and begin to reverse the direction we are taking, and save the Republican Party, the country, and the world from the further damage that these people are going to cause,.....going to cause.

        What is similiar to the Nixon situation is this:

        Republicans, we need you as citizens for balance and objectivity.
        There are deep mental and cultural reasons we are different, you republicans  and us democrats....(and the lowercase 'd' and 'r' is intentional.)
        We need each other. That's a fact.

        What you think you're defending is not a Republican administration.
        It's a criminal conspiracy. Period.
        It has ensnared and fooled you and I and the best minds in the world...not all of them, but that's only by degree. They are way worse than even I would have predicted.
        The only thing they haven't done that is even worse is drop a nuclear bomb on somebody.
        A lying, impeachable president cannot be the man who initiates action leading to a nuclear war. This the path they've taken with Iran.

        Just like with Nixon, it's time that the party leaders, even on both sides of the aisle, and members of the military, and members of the judiciary, meet and ask quietly and  with a resolve of the highest order ever seen in our history, and tell the President that it's time to step down. Now.

        A new interim president will be determined by all legal processes. The election this fall could confirm he or she for the interim by the voters in a resolution/ referendum,  to help unite the country and present a unified leadership to the world. Both parties would work for this.

        Because the reality is this:

                         "Resign or be impeached Mr. President."

         

        Somebody, do something, I got kids I care about, fer crying out loud!

        by KenBee on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 10:59:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •   Failures Listed by Nylan8 (6+ / 0-)

          I do not want to be accused of plagiarism. I copied this awhile ago.  I hope this doesn’t go against the rules on Daly Kos. I do not have a link. The blogger Nylan8 from another blog wrote the following.

          "This administration FAILED to make its case to the world.
          This administration FAILED to gather a larger coalition.
          This administration FAILED to protect against looters after their invasion.
          This administration FAILED to defend the weapons depots.
          This administration FAILED to protect the borders after it invaded.
          This administration FAILED to protect the Iraqis from being bombed.
          This administration FAILED to provide electricity.
          This administration FAILED to provide water.
          This administration FAILED to provide sewage treatment.
          This administration FAILED to fix the infrastructure that it destroyed.
          This administration FAILED to account for billions in spending.
          This administration FAILED to adequately provide for our troops.
          This administration FAILED to train the Iraqi police forces in three years of occupation.
          This administration FAILED to tell us the truth at every single step of the way.
          This administration FAILED to find the mass-destruction weapons.
          This administration FAILED to capture Osama Bin Laden."

          Nylan8's statements were right on target, IMHO.

          "A child miseducated is a child lost" John F. Kennedy

          by Pam from Calif on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:38:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks for adding this KenBee (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KenBee

          Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

          by HoundDog on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:04:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Just like with Clinton (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snakelass, Sharon in MD

        It wasn't the BJ that outraged them (at least so they claimed), it was the lying under oath about it that gave cause for impeachment.

        We may soon have all the elements ... except the oath.

        I wonder if Chimpy will have the chutzpah to argue that he gets off the hook because he WASN'T under oath when Fitz talked to him.  

        Remember how they made a big deal of it at the time, that a sitting president shouldn't have to be put under oath?  Wonder why?

        "I intend to live forever. So far, so good." Steven Wright

        by gsbadj on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 03:21:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Why not call a press conference and share the (5+ / 0-)

      declassified information with all the media, Congress, and the American people. Why only release the declassified info to Judy Miller, via Scooter?

      Nothing short of an aroused public can change things, nothing less than democracy is at stake- Bill Moyers

      by maggiemae on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 08:21:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because the NIE was a pipeline special (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snakelass, Overseas, HoundDog, neecie100

        Some of the info in the NIE was bogus - it was the setup on Wilson -  and it also had stovepiped OSP very much alive as a presidential talking point and thus across the rightwind and national mass media. They couldn't release it because it would show the implicit deceit behind their words and actions.

        The NIE was the fix. Organizing to spread the fix was the conspiracy (probably one of many). Talking to the reporters was putting the fix in.

        So, they laundered the info, tranfering it into journalistic currency upon which they could comment freely. That's what they did with Iraqi info via Judy Miller and probably others. They laundered info like they laundered money.

        A lotta dirty laundry.

        •  We still have to get all of this internal (0+ / 0-)

          into the MSM.  Dick Cheney, ran herd, micro-management style over the White House Iraq Group.

          He had this OSP created to "find" (or make-up) more intelligence that supported the politcy goals.

          The OSP (under Feith I think) was responsible for "fixing" the intelligence around the policy" as reported in the Downing Street Memo.

          We've only scratch the surface of the sordid tale that will emerge here folks.

          Before its over you will hear tales of Micheal Leeden and connection to Eurpean facists.  Franklin and connections to illegal espianage against the US, and such a deep well of vipers, neer-do-wells, neocon zealots and others that defy description that you will think Shakespere was making this up while on a bizzaire acid trip.  

          But it's all true.  Well except that all the players were lying through their teeth at almost every opportunity.

          Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

          by HoundDog on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:13:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And don't forget (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Creosote, HoundDog

            The strange black ops groups (like Task Force 121 or its later iterations) still out in the field, from Iraq and Iran to Venezuela and Bolivia, to Indonesia and Nigeria...we're there's oil and resources to be stolen, there's destabilization in the name of security to keep any local power from getting control of the goodies. Subjegation is the order of the day...everyday.

            And, HoundDog, they ain't get teeth - those are fangs.

      •  THIS is the question (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maggiemae, snakelass

        That nobody (at least no reporters) ever ask! If Joe Wilson was so wrong, why would the administration need to do this behind-the-scenes leaking to discredit him and his argument? This is why Judith Miller is such a bad reporter, because it's not like Libby was some whistleblower who needed to remain anonymous. If the administration could prove that Wilson was wrong and that he was just a partisan trying to unfairly undermine the adminstration, why not just go on the record and say, because it is so important, we are going to selectively declassify some information that refutes Wilson's assertions. This is what her editors should have been asking at the NYT, this is what editors and reporters at every major newspaper should have been asking. Why the need for this cloak-and-dagger crap? As we know now - and as they should have known then - because they were indeed lying about the case for war.

        'The war is over,' so said the speaker, with the flight suit on. Maybe to him I'm just a pawn, so he can advance. ... All I wanna do is dance.

        by Whigsboy on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:15:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That's questionable (0+ / 0-)

      The latest executive order presently provides that the President can declassify information he has called for to be classified, but each Agency still has a say on the declassification of information it has called for to be classified, or that for example has been classified by some previous President.

      (d) Information marked for an indefinite duration of classification under predecessor orders, for example, marked as "Originating Agencys Determination Required," or information classified under predecessor orders that contains no declassification instructions shall be declassified in accordance with part 3 of this order.

      In terms of the outing of CIA agents for domestic political ends, the CIA is understandably reluctant to comply.

      Live Free or Die (-8.88 -9.49) IMPEACH

      by rktect on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:05:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not just reluctant, but furioiusly opposed too. (0+ / 0-)

        We need to find more quotes from those in the intelligence community indignant about this.  And call for a full formal Damage Assessment which has deliberately been avoided to prevent Bush from having to take responsibility for the consequences.

        Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

        by HoundDog on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 12:14:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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