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  •  Re: When your puppets don't dance (none / 0)

    Here again, you're using a false analogy.  Sunnis and Shi'ites are not ethnic groups, they are religions.  There has never been any movement for an independent Shi'ite state in Iraq, and both Sunnis and Shi'ites FEAR that the U.S. will follow the old colonial policy of dividing Arab lands in order to weaken them.  Basically, Yugoslavia is not Iraq...two countries formed in two completely differnet cultural worlds.

    Check out my blog if you like discussion of the Middle East and other random topics.

    by Brian Ulrich on Sun Nov 09, 2003 at 05:28:30 PM PDT

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    •  Re: When your puppets don't dance (3.00 / 2)

      The Sunnis and the Shi'ites may not be ethnically different, but that doesn't change the fact that "Iraq" is a particularly artificial creation, and as such is much more prone to fracturing ala Yugoslavia. These people aren't all Iraqis because their ancestors wanted to be; they're Iraqis because a bunch of Europeans drew some very self-serving lines on a map. The world would be a much happier place today if "Kuwait" had never been carved out separately, and if the Kurds had just been given their own country.

      And no, that doesn't mean that I approved of Hussein's original invasion of Kuwait. Just that he seized on a kernal of historic truth to use as cover for his power-grab.

      It's pronounced "Gooey-Duck"!

      by geoduck on Sun Nov 09, 2003 at 05:50:29 PM PDT

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      •  Re: When your puppets don't dance (none / 1)

        But your Kuwait point shows the real issue:  In Yugoslavia, areas with different cultures, languages, and traditions were rammed together.  Except for Kurdistan, Iraq and the rest of the Arab states had more or less the same culture, language, and traditions and got carved up.  Iraqs' ancestors may not have wanted to be Iraqis: They wanted to be part of a united Arab state.

        Check out my blog if you like discussion of the Middle East and other random topics.

        by Brian Ulrich on Sun Nov 09, 2003 at 08:32:10 PM PDT

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        •  Re: When your puppets don't dance (none / 1)

          Except for Kurdistan, Iraq and the rest of the Arab states had more or less the same culture, language, and traditions and got carved up.

          And so is Northern Ireland. Your point? Just because two regions are 'more or less' the same, from an outsiders eyes, does not mean that they 'want' to be considered one state.

          -- "Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

          by Gary on Sun Nov 09, 2003 at 11:52:30 PM PDT

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          •  Re: When your puppets don't dance (none / 0)

            Here's the bottom line:  There is no movement in southern Iraq for an independent Shi'ite state.  On the contrary, there is fear that the U.S. will do what the British did and try to break up an Arab nation so as to weaken it.  Yes, Iraq is a colonial mishmash, but as with most other Arab states, it's one where the population tends to want greater unity rather than further subdivision.  I don't know the full history and culture of Northern Ireland.  I do know the history and culture of Iraq.

            Check out my blog if you like discussion of the Middle East and other random topics.

            by Brian Ulrich on Mon Nov 10, 2003 at 12:56:49 AM PDT

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          •  Re: When your puppets don't dance (none / 0)

            That's because Northern Ireland has a Protestant rather than Catholic majority - a majority which is the product of centuries-old ethnic cleansing, for lack of a better word. Not a good analogy.

            W was elected to protect Them from Us.

            by Radical Middle on Mon Nov 10, 2003 at 02:47:16 AM PDT

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