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Actually, I do believe that. People don't follow Dean's speeches as closely as you guys do. I'd never heard the line before and it was stupid/foolish/condescending in that presentation. I'm told, however, by those of you who do follow the speeches more closely, that he normally contextualizes the line in a way he didn't this time, which made it more offensive. In that case, an emotional reaction (which Edwards' clearly was, I don't think he's that good of an actor, frankly) is plausible.
Its not plausible to someone who has followed the Dean campaign for a long time, is used to the remark and who agrees with it, that it might offend (even if heard before) given the way it was presented that night. But it certainly is plausible to other people.
That's the issue.
The other issue is a bigger one, that I outlined above, both Edwards and Sharptons "responses" are much more than politics at play, they represent two different threads of what it wrapped up in the issue. And its important that those threads be unwound and examined.
I don't look at these things as simply about the election, the way most folks here do, that enables me, sometimes to see some things that often get overlooked in the shuffle to elevate and eliminate candidates.
My point is simply that alternative explanations/understandings are in fact plausible. And one doesn't have to "twist" in order to see them. The truth isn't always clear cut.
Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel
by a gilas girl on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 12:39:02 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
We're not talking about "people" in general, we're talking about two of Dean's opponents in the campaign! No, I'm afraid it's not at all believeable that Sharpton and Edwards had never heard that comment or that their "outrage" was genuine.
by KevinA on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 01:07:41 PM PDT
While the first may be true (I doubt if Sharpton actually pays very close attention to his opponents stump speeches, and he doesn't have much of a staff to follow these things, so its plausible, but you seem certain that it isn't so no more discussion is warranted there), even having heard the comment before does not preclude a genuine angry response. Which is what I have been arguing; the chances are just as likely that the comment did (or had all along) made Edwards angry. It was pretty clear from his response (at least over the radio, which is where I heard the debate)that he was actually angry.
Did he use it for political gain? Without a doubt, but I can't say for certain (as you appear able to do) that the whole thing was simply a ploy or an "attack". The anger could have been and certainly seemed to be genuine. And it did not appear to be a canned response (otherwise he would have come up with a better one I have to assume; the guy's not stupid). You appear to disagree and find that the only reasonable explanation is to smear Dean, or to pander. You seem unwilling to even admit, grudgingly, that there could be anger there. That the original comment from Dean could insult. I'm only saying that in interpreting the event as such, there's a lot of other information that goes by the wayside, and that information is actually pretty useful.
There's a certainty around here that is so easily reinforced because so many people see things the same way. That makes for a "self-evident" nature to things that aren't always as self-evident when you step away from the shared vision. If I'm cranky, its because trying to explain this over and over again to the conventional field of vision around here has worn me down. I don't have as much patience or a sense of humor about it as I used to, I will admit.
I personally find that kind of certainty dangerous, so I will always challenge it, sometimes not so wisely. Obviously many people take comfort in it. I'm not going to argue with you about what is "obvious" because nearly everything you've described as obvious I can see a plausible and credible alternative explanation for. It may not be true, that explanation, but it is certainly plausible and credible. On the other hand, your obvious explanation may not be true either.
by a gilas girl on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 04:14:21 PM PDT
wide narrow
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