Daily Kos

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  •  What Are You Suggesting? (none / 1)

    I'm not exactly sure what you want the DNC or John Kerry to do.  Do you think Kerry should unconcede, or do you think Kerry and the DNC should come out publicly and demand a recount?

    We lose all credibility if Kerry or the DNC make any sudden public announcement.  The repubs can't make charges of being a sore loser if Kerry is on the sidelines.  

    Once this story gets bigger, public support for a recount will grow, and we will have the public on our side.  People will see the possibility of Ohio voter fraud, and see that the charges are not even coming from the Kerry campaign or the DNC and the demand for a recount will rise.

    You need to think with your brain, and not with your heart right now.  What good will come out with Kerry and the DNC publicly demanding a recount.  Nothing.  I mean, all the ballots still havn't been counted yet.  We still don't have conclusive evidence of voter fraud.  We need to smart about this, not reckless.

    •  It's not enough to be smart (none / 0)

      When we are afraid to simply request an open accounting of our votes, and find excuses for not demanding this basic right, we delude ourselves. We are fools to imagine that things will sort themselves out even if our votes are not counted, and that we must wait patiently and not protest even as we see our civils rights eroded, one by one. History tells us otherwise.

      We lost the 2000 election because we were too clever, too immersed in short-term strategies, to simply stand up for what we knew was right. We were timid, looking for the path of least resistance. We ended up losing our bearings and much else besides.  Never again.

      To answer your reasonable questions:

      John Kerry should have kept his promise to "make every vote count."  It's as simple as that.  I believed that promise and I voted for him. I'm disappointed. He could have waited a few days.  What was the urgent matter that took priority over assuring the integrity of the vote?

      Frankly, John Kerry is the one who needed to be told, "We need to be smart about this, not reckless."

      And what now, that he's made a bad decision and backed himself into a corner? Well, why not simply show some integrity and backbone?  Above all, he ought to show us that he cares more about defending our basic right to vote than he cares about his own political career.

      How he chooses to demonstrate that is up to him.  If he is indeed a leader who deserves our respect, he'll find a way.

      •  Look, I see where you are coming from, but... (4.00 / 2)

        everything we are fighting for would be ruined if Kerry and the DNC become publicly involved.  Credibility is lost, public support erodes, and republican attacks begin.

        The fact that people not associated with the Kerry campaign or the DNC are conducting this process gives us credibility and support from the public.  If people like Cobb, Badnarik, etc. are calling for a recount, how are they going to be accused of being sore losers?

        And what makes you think Kerry didn't keep his promise?  Do you think Kerry isn't keeping tabs on what is going on in Ohio?  You think his lawyers are doing nothing?  They will do whatever it takes to get every vote counted appropriately.  And they are smart enough to know that the less Kerry and the DNC get involved, the better chance a fair election is conducted.

        Have faith in the man.  He has spent his whole adult life trying to become president and he aint going to let some asshole steal it from him.  Though his heart says to attack the election process, his brain knows the best chance to succeed is to remain silent until there is conclusive evidence of fraud, all the ballots are counted, or outsiders have forced a recount.  Talking about this publicly hurts the party's credibility, and the chances of us breaking this election scandal open.

        •  Credibility is lost by not defending our rights (none / 1)

          Have we all succumbed to the Orwellian logic of the Bush-Cheney administration?

          If Kerry defends our right to vote, he will gain credibility, not lose it. Martin Luther King, when reviled and attacked by cowards, only gained greater credibility and support among decent men and women.  When he stood up and demanded justice, his public support did not erode.  Quite the contrary.

          Of course Bush and his supporters will attack Kerry if he shows guts and integrity.  But surely Kerry is not afraid of their name-calling?

          If Thurgood Marshall found the courage to take legal cases in places where he had to get out of town before nightfall, surely John Kerry has the courage to be smeared and criticized by scoundrels and tyrants.

          John McCain once said in South Carolina, "I'm honored by the attacks by the people who addicted our children and lied to Congress."

          Kerry should be honored to incure the ire of those who oppose free elections. If he's afraid of losing their respect, then he should join their party.

          Integrity is not a matter for strategic compromise.  If you don't agree, then vote next time for the candidate who hesitates to be publicly associated with demanding an open and fair voting system.

          I will vote for a different kind of candidate. I want someone who demonstrates integrity and leadership, and I will work to defeat any candidate who dares to trade away my right to vote as if it were a chip in his private poker game. My vote does not belong to him.  He may not trade it away to improve his chances in 2008.  It is mine, it is precious, and I will defend it.

          Because I am not in their districts, I cannot vote for Conyers, Nadler, and most of the others who demanded a GAO investigation, but I damned sure am going to send them money for their next campaigns.  As for Kerry, if he defends my vote, he can count on my vote and my continued support in the future.

          If not, then I will find candidates who are not embarrassed at the prospect of supporting my most fundamental rights.

    •  I think Kerry is on it! (none / 1)

      First, I don't think he has much to loose. If he presents it as just wanting to be diligent. When he's got all the fact he can get. He could just come out and state that there are too many incoherences in this vote. The new Mexico turnout, the Ohio 4000 votes for Bush, the extreme and systematic discrepancy with exit polls, the Florida Republicans willingness to go against the board of election's cheaper and safer recommendation, the Diebold CEO statement, the Florida technical glitches, the voter suppression, etc. This deserves looking into. He should say that if these are just isolated incidents and coincidences, he'll accept it gladly and go back home.

      But to come out like this, you need the most facts you can get. And the best thing is also to not give too much of a notice for the republicans to prepare. (Although I'm quite sure they have a defense in place. Guilty or not.)

      I have got to believe that Kerry the prosecutor is looking into this. For god's sake, he's the guy who kept looking into BCCI despite many colleagues telling him that he was going against too many powerful interests and that it was bad for his Senate career.

      Finally, one last thing. I find the Kerry team's discipline at keeping collective silence on the topic somewhat eerie. I would think that if they had really thrown the towel, there would have been more noise on this... Even at a meetup I went in Evanston, last night. One guy started mentioning the Fraud word, and the organizers smoothly changed the topic. Maybe it's just a collective desire to move forward. Or maybe it's just the troops all knowing that they should taunt the enemy just before battle...

      Finally, on a personal note. I would feel just outstanding if Kerry came out swinging.

       

      "The delusional is no longer marginal but has come in from the fringe to influence the seats of power

      by FightOn on Sat Nov 13, 2004 at 12:30:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It would feel outstanding, but it just isn't smart (none / 0)

        Kerry's silence is frustrating, but people need to realize it is the only practical way to go.  Him coming out swinging wouldn't help the solution.  While it would give us energy, it also gives ammunition to republicans and the media to unload on Kerry and the DNC.

        The facts havn't all come in yet.  All the ballots havn't been counted yet.  Be patient.  It would ruin our credibility to have Kerry come out and publicly fight this thing.

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