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  •  I don't think he'd be buried in organizational (none / 0)

    tasks or tamed (maybe a little).

    I believe Dean and/or Rosenberg are the real deal and are sorely needed right now.

    I'm indifferent right now about 2008.  It's really a world away (so much can happen - so speculation is kind of pointless now).  My gut tells me he probably won't run then.  

    But regardless, we need him right now.  

    The party needs to be revitalized.

    by HariSeldon on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 12:42:08 AM PDT

    •  Dear god, (none / 0)

      did I just say 'right now' 4 times?  I apologize.  The late hour has induced repetitiveness, right now ;-)

      by HariSeldon on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 12:47:13 AM PDT

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    •  Since when is Dean (none / 1)

      an organization man?  He works better as an outsider threat to the DLCer types than as a DNC insider.  I'd really love to see Gore come back in 2008 with Dean in a position to take VP.  I wonder if his DNC chair offer excludes that.  

      Bayh-partisan: it's the new joementum

      by gogol999 on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 12:51:05 AM PDT

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      •  He strikes me as an adaptable (none / 1)

        political renaissance man.

        That is, I believe he has the abilities to do whatever he wants to do.  Notice how he immediately and ardently supported Kerry.

        I admit I do not know a lot about him, only having observed him for a couple years, and I don't intend to glorify him, as has been mocked in the "no rules" thread.

        How long can he remain useful and interested in a vague "outsider" role?  Things change quickly.  And as the White House likes to say that they create their own realities, I say we should create ours, and let the old-schoolers observe the new reality we create, with Dean leading a stronger Democratic party.

        by HariSeldon on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 01:15:23 AM PDT

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      •  No Way (none / 0)

        Sorry, Gore's through.  He'll never live to run as a Democrat again.  He fumbled Florida; the mainstream party hates him and the Republicans laugh at him.

        Be the change you wish to see in the world.

        by Sara Brooks on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 01:15:27 AM PDT

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        •  Gore. (none / 1)

          It's totally ironic to me.  I'm convinced Gore is the only major Dem who could definitely win nationally if he were to run in 2008 (I don't mean nobody else can win; but the good prospects like Warner and Richardson and Bayh are relative unknowns).  Gore is sufficiently familiar and sufficiently conservative (and I don't at all believe he really screwed up in Florida; it was an impossible situation.)  But he'd never ever make it through the Democratic primary given how much both the Clintonites and half the left hates him. Moreover, I'd rather eat tinfoil than watch him try.

          The grass is always greener when it bursts up through concrete -- XTC

          by tlaura on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 01:43:00 AM PDT

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      •  Neither of them (none / 0)

        could make it through a primary.  DNC Chair is probably the best Dean can hope for.  He's too New England, too pro-tax, too anti-war to run nationally at least in 2008.  Having him in that position would be a major score for the "grassroots", whatever we are.  My guess is that, despite the support he's got from Steve Grossman and a whack of the old Gore-ites, the rest of the party establishment will fight him tooth and nail to keep him out of the DNC.

        Plus, unless McCain Feingold gets ruled unconstitutional, Dean's main job as DNC Chair will be campaigning and going on Sunday shows, two things he loves and is good at.  Move On and the other Clinton-controlled 527s will still be the party's major ATMs.

        So I guess I'm totally disagreeing with you.

        The grass is always greener when it bursts up through concrete -- XTC

        by tlaura on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 01:35:37 AM PDT

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        •  If they keep him out of the DNC (none / 0)

          I'll be satisfied.  He won't disappear.  Grossman is no friend of Dean's.  Not after Wisconsin.  Whatever he's pushing should be very carefully considered.

          Bayh-partisan: it's the new joementum

          by gogol999 on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 01:47:02 AM PDT

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          •  I think you're too hard on Grossman. (none / 1)

            Not just you but everyone.  Grossman was with Dean from the very beginning of the 2004 primary, way before he was out of single digits.  And Grossman was a major player in the party; he could have worked for Kerry or Lieberman.  When Grossman pulled out on Dean it was obvious he wasn't going to win Wisconsin; he was way behind in all the polls and most of the voters never heard about Grossman's defection anyway.  And I think Grossman is a friend of Dean's -- he's been shilling hard for him in recent days which will almost certainly not go down well with the powers that be (i.e. with the Clintonites).  Also, even if Dean doesn't get to be DNC Chair, just having a major Dem like Grossman shilling for him raises his stature in the Party.

            I don't expect Dean to totally disappear if he doesn't get to be DNC Chair.  But he's much less likely to disappear if he does get DNC Chair.  If he were to try to run in 2008 and lose he'd be through.

            So I still disagree with you.  I'm not 100% sure Dean is optimally suited to the DNC Chairmanship but I do think it's his best option and would be a coup for his supporters.

            The grass is always greener when it bursts up through concrete -- XTC

            by tlaura on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 02:21:13 AM PDT

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