but respectfully disagree. I think bobsquatch is entirely right. You're saying they don't live up to their own values. He's saying that it's not about "values," it's about the words we use to talk about them. If you can get as far as your longwinded explanation about no, no, this is the smart way to fight the war on terror, you'd be in great shape. The problem is that these words don't mean the same thing for you that they do for most of the nation, because Republicans won the definitional debate already. "Moral values" = their values. You don't get to change the definition. That's a much longer and harder task than what you're talking about, and it doesn't start with "you don't live up to moral values," it starts with "We think moral values are such-and-such." In other words, it begins with a constructive project that sets up a viable definitional alternative.