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  •  Let them feel the rod. (4.00 / 4)

    They have their mandate and the American poeple should get what they deserve.

    The fundamental moment when this race was lost was when congressional Democrats successfully blocked Bush's attempt to limit overtime pay.

    Although those limits would have terribly hurt many real people it kept the Middle Class from seeing how threatened they are by Bush.

    We should not obstruct the Republican agenda; this only helps carry their water. The people have chosen and I say that we should let them have it; this is the only way that Americans will learn.

    It took the Great Depression for America to wake up in the 30's and embrace Liberalism. Americans forgot these lessons and they need to deeply suffer this lapse.

    They need to feel the rod they have chosen this for themselves; let them hemorrhage their losses.

    If you have got a boss, you need a union. Read www.purpleocean.org/blog/

    by BartBoris on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 12:56:20 PM PDT

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    •  I hope they ban abortion. (3.50 / 4)

      I want them to ban IVF and stem cell research. I hope they halt public education, stop unemployment insurance, end food and drug regulation. Please send our son and daughters to die in perpetual war. Kill Medicare and stop medicaid. Please privitize Social Security. Terrorize our people with fear of foreingers or anyone who is differnt and please shrink our goverment "to the size you can drown it in the toilet." End the New Deal and ruin the Great Society. This is the goverment our people deserve. Let them wallow in their ignorance and poverty.

      I will not obstruct the Republican agenda but I will work to build a grass roots media made up of citzen opinion journalist who will tell the truth about their agenda.

      If you have got a boss, you need a union. Read www.purpleocean.org/blog/

      by BartBoris on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 01:06:11 PM PDT

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      •  on ending welfare (4.00 / 2)

        Consider working to stop tax deductions for religious organizations.  

        by LuckyLu on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 01:13:58 PM PDT

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        •  Problem... (none / 1)

          Problem with legislative agendas is that we don't control the legislature.

          I think we start with blue state legislatures.  Lots of things we can do to stick it to the man there.  I'm thinking of marijuana initiatives on the California ballot, I'm thinking of challenging the federal government's role in schedule II narcotics enforcement based on the takings clause and state's rights, I'm thinking of attaching a rider to a bill that other than the District of Columbia, states should only be able to get out of the welfare system what they put in, I'm talking about giving tax breaks to companies that get rated on a progressive scale.

          In short, I'm talking about economic warfare.

          TexasDemocrat
          Giggity giggity giggity...Iraq's a Quagmire

          by TexasDemocrat on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 02:40:36 PM PDT

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        •  VERY IMPORTANT (none / 0)

          They're going after the NAACP for electioneering but what about all the churches that tell their members how to vote? We have a guy that works for us at $10.00 per hour and had no reason to vote Bush but that the church told him to.

          by kycole on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:31:54 AM PDT

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      •  I do not have a link (none / 1)

        But on Air America today a caller said that he had seen a couple of maps in Newsweek

        One showing the read and blue states --

        The other showing all the soldiers that have died - what states they came from for the most part -- it was the blue states.

        We not only pay for you - we bleed for you - and we die for you.

        "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

        by sara seattle on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 04:32:48 PM PDT

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      •  don't blame the people! (none / 0)


        I share your rage, man.  But these cuts will hurt innocent people.  In saying that Americans deserve to suffer for their foolishness ignores the fact that close to 50% of Americans stood in long lines and wanted desperately to (re)defeat Bush.

        And maybe it was even more than 50%, if the speculation about Diebold is on the mark.

        Also, if education suffers it'll be even harder --in the long term-- to win hearts and minds to our side.  The Republicans, on the other hand, will only grow stronger as the population gets progressively more and more ignorant.

        Have you read the The Democrats' Da Vinci Code?

        by Nate Roberts on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 04:56:43 PM PDT

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        •  The homeland security budget (4.00 / 2)

          ...has also been lavished on red states that don't need it.  The blue states are where the terrorist targets (NY, DC, LA, SF, Chicago) are, and we're closing hospitals.  How will we deal with an attack?  Meanwhile, Alaska's considering buying a nice new governor's jet like Airforce One with their windfall.

          "The survival value of intelligence is that it allows us to extinct a bad idea, before the idea extincts us." -- Karl Popper

          by eyeswideopen on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 07:56:31 PM PDT

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        •  They are laughing. (none / 1)

          I moved to a red state a couple years ago, and they think it is a joke.  They don't want the money, but they'll take it, with contempt for us in the process.

          Let me tell you, they know they don't put in, they won't raise their own state taxes, it just gives them an excuse to do nothing.  Like Mexico.  When ever there's problems in Mexico, they send their people North.  They don't reform, they do not bother to help the economy or the poor.  The Blue states need to expand, people need to support their own, and when the recession hits from the skyrocketing deficit hits, at least those states will have the buffer.

           I can assure Fed funds are NOT appreciated in MS, unless they go to company, or organization, or a defense contractor (they have dozens here).

          by lilorphant on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 09:27:04 AM PDT

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        •  Honestly ... (none / 1)

          Screw them.  When I was a kid, Mom and Dad made the money, so they set the rules.  Why can't we have that in America?  

          I make my own money, and I pay a lot of it out in taxes. I can't afford to keep giving it away like this.  I live in an area with a high cost of living.  I have compassion for others, but if they insist on voting in a way that makes me less safe, places me further into debt, provides me with good healthcare but I have to pay a large portion of my salary to get it, and puts their nose into my business via the Patriot Act and whole gay-marrige thing.

          Sorry, but when I hear claims that America's soul is on the heartland, real values, all that crap, I can't help but wonder if taking care of your own and hard work are values in the red states.  

          These people are innocent?  They aren't innocent.  They chose to vote that way.  If the people who voted for Bush don't realize those ramifications, it isn't my job to explain it nicely.  Frankly, I'm too busy staying out of debt, and they probably think I have too much foam on my nose from my latte to take me seriously anyway.  

          50% of the population voted for Kerry and live in a red state?  Well, then they need to either move to a blue state, or talk to their friends and neighbors about why Bush had Bad Idea written all over him.

          We aren't going to win unless we can win over those red states.  And they don't want to hear it from me.  It all has to come from the people they know, they people they respect.  

           
          Red States Feed at Federal Trough, Blue States Supply the Feed

          Monday, September 27, 2004

          The Tax Foundation has released a fascinating report showing which states benefit from federal tax and spending policies, and which states foot the bill.

          The report shows that of the 32 states (and the District of Columbia) that are "winners" -- receiving more in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 76% are Red States that voted for George Bush in 2000. Indeed, 17 of the 20 (85%) states receiving the most federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Red States. Here are the Top 10 states that feed at the federal trough (with Red States highlighted in bold):

          States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

          D.C. ($6.17)

          North Dakota ($2.03)

          New Mexico ($1.89)

          Mississippi ($1.84)

          Alaska ($1.82)

          West Virginia ($1.74)

          Montana ($1.64)

          Alabama ($1.61)

          South Dakota ($1.59)

          Arkansas ($1.53)

          In contrast, of the 16 states that are "losers" -- receiving less in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 69% are Blue States that voted for Al Gore in 2000. Indeed, 11 of the 14 (79%) of the states receiving the least federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Blue States. Here are the Top 10 states that supply feed for the federal trough (with Blue States highlighted in bold):
          States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

          New Jersey ($0.62)

          Connecticut ($0.64)

          New Hampshire ($0.68)

          Nevada ($0.73)

          Illinois ($0.77)

          Minnesota ($0.77)

          Colorado ($0.79)

          Massachusetts ($0.79)

          California ($0.81)

          New York ($0.81)

          Two states -- Florida and Oregon
          (coincidentally, the two closest states in the 2000 Presidential election) -- received $1.00 in federal spending for each $1.00 in federal taxes paid.
          quotebox

          I don't own any stocks or bonds. All my money is tied up in debt.

          by muffilator on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:39:35 AM PDT

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          •  true, but. . . (none / 0)

            Sorry, but when I hear claims that America's soul is on the heartland, real values, all that crap, I can't help but wonder if taking care of your own and hard work are values in the red states.

            Exactly.  I couldn't agree with you more.  And I also accept your point that it was less than 50% of the people in the red states who voted against Bush and so clearly a majority are not innocent.  

            But what about the minority who passionately wanted to throw Bush out?  So what if it was only 20% who voted against Bush in those states?  Do they deserve to be pubished just because they live in red states?  To me that smacks of collective punishement (though I admit that's a bit too strong of a term).

            Don't get me wrong; I'm all for punishing the guilty ones.  We've just got to do it in a way that targets the right people.

            I actually had an idea about goading conservative Bible thumpers to sign onto a list of people who pledge that if they ever find themselves in any kind of medical crisis they will not accept any medical intervention that was made possible by the use of stem cell research.

            It would be kind of like an organ donner card, and would be permanently attatched to their medical record (until, of course, they had second thoughts when confronted with the consequences of their "moral" stance.

            Let's force them to put their own precious asses where their mouths are!

            Have you read the The Democrats' Da Vinci Code?

            by Nate Roberts on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:50:55 PM PDT

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            •  re: (none / 0)

              But what about the minority who passionately wanted to throw Bush out?  So what if it was only 20% who voted against Bush in those states?  Do they deserve to be pubished just because they live in red states?  To me that smacks of collective punishement (though I admit that's a bit too strong of a term).

              The minority who passionately wanted to throw Bush out should talk to their friends and neighbors about why Bush's policies are bad for them, economically and morally.  They need to make the sale for us - apparently we are doing something wrong when we speak to these people.  If they can't convince people that it is time for a change, then why would they want to continue to live in a state that subsists on the dole, takes away rights and freedoms from several groups, and enacts bigoted laws?

              This isn't about vengance.  It is about taxation without representation.  I send a large chunk of money to Washington, but I don't get to elect the president.

               

              I don't own any stocks or bonds. All my money is tied up in debt.

              by muffilator on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:09:56 PM PDT

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            •  Education (none / 0)

              Form your original post:

              Also, if education suffers it'll be even harder --in the long term-- to win hearts and minds to our side.  The Republicans, on the other hand, will only grow stronger as the population gets progressively more and more ignorant.

              This speaks to a larger problem:  What can we do with all of the people, living in these larger rural (red) states, whose economic future is decidedly bleak.  The manufacturing jobs are disapearing, and I think it is a matter of time before we lose them permanently (unless some worlwide labor standards are changed pronto).  There are only so many high-tech jobs to go around.  I fear our service based economy will be unstable in the long term.

              In the meantime, this population is getting older, prisons are filling, divorce rates skyrocketing.  

              I would love to see more tax breaks for companies like New Balance, who keep at least some manufacturing jobs here.  We need to start producing regional goods again (even things like quilts and furniture).  Organic, local farming.  Invest in public works - keeping things green, building new areas.  If we can become the best place to build an alternative fuel car, and keep that market hot through international environmental standards treaties, we could produce a big enough labor boom to prolong this for a while.  

              Ignorance can go both ways.  I think if we remove the dependence on the federal system, the changes that we need economically can happen.  The states are forced to be independent and survive on their own.  

              If we don't kick the kids out of the nest soon, before we know it they'll be 40 and living in the basement.

              I don't own any stocks or bonds. All my money is tied up in debt.

              by muffilator on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:42:21 PM PDT

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      •  Actually (none / 0)

        I don't hope they do this.

        However, it would be nice if they starting seeing this in the red states.  The REAL Republican agenda.  Maybe the rest of the nation will wake up then.

        McCain: Less jobs, more war.

        by Unstable Isotope on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 05:38:52 PM PDT

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      •  But... (none / 0)

        They were counting on us to stop them so they wouldn't have to own the hate that is their agenda!

        Stephanie Dray
        of Jousting for Justice, a lefty blog with a Maryland tilt.

        by stephdray on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 06:48:04 PM PDT

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      •  They made their own country once (none / 1)

        they christened it "Jonestown."

        See all those white spots? Those are murdered children and suicidal adults. These, my kossak friends, is the fruits of religious extemism.

        dont visit my blog!

        by skallas on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 07:54:07 PM PDT

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      •  Covertly Support Red State Campaigns for ... (none / 1)

        Subsidized home schooling!  Make them unfit for any modern business!

        Censorship!  Ban any TV, movie or books that do not conform with the Talibaptist Mullahs!

        Establish State Religions!  Give Scalia and Thomas their wish!  The weirder and fundier, the better!  I'd love to see a campaign in which the Talibaptists and the pentacostalists battle for supremacy, with Mormons serving as the Naderite spoiler!

        Force fertile women to bear children!  The more the merrier!

        Criticize any request by these states for farm aid, subsidies as welfare and big government!

        Make gun ownership and carrying mandatory!

        by h0db on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 10:10:10 PM PDT

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      •  That grassroots media exists (none / 0)

        Indymedia.org

        Okie? Join Sooner Kos. | Why Obama? Because we've never had a president whose name started with O.

        by gypsy on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 11:45:55 PM PDT

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    •  yes indeed bartboris (4.00 / 4)

      i have been thinking this. let them reap the whirlwind, as it were. our 45 senators should sit on their hands and not say a peep. you bought it, you got it, baby.

      and i live in red oklahoma. fuck'em. i have nothing but contempt for these hillbilly neanderthals at this point.

      know whats weird? i hang out with a group of trial lawyers here and they are all bush people. WTF?

      Any man can stand some adversity. If you really want to know a man's character, give him power. Abe Lincoln.

      by maskling11 on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 03:04:52 PM PDT

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    •  We had to destroy the village... (none / 1)

      in order to save it.

      It's rather interesting that we can sometimes justify the suffering of innocent people to serve our own ends.

      by GorgeousOrifice on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 11:11:52 PM PDT

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