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  •  Thank you for posting again... (4.00 / 2)

    .....have recommended...
    •  recommended (4.00 / 4)

      i am not counting (sorry) on a change in results.

      but as a citizen, i need to know that this system isn't rigged.

      i need to have faith in the electoral process.

      if i don't i won't vote.  i won't even care.  & i won't live here.

      a democracy w/o the trust of it's citizens is not going to survive.

      for the love of god & to get all these people who believe it was stolen (& those of us who wonder) to relax, COUNT ALL THE VOTES

      kerry & edwards owe us this.  & edwards better finish this if he wants it to not bite him politically later.

      •  Agreed. (4.00 / 9)

        By the way, however, I think people are dramatically overestimating the significance of Kerry's "concession".  "Conceding" the election has no legal significance.  If recounts show he won, then he won... he can "un-concede" without much difficulty.  He made a smart and classy speech, and the door is still open to do whatever recounts and investigations are necessary to ensure the vote counts are, indeed, accurate.

        And quite frankly, it's best if the Democrats in Ohio and Florida do that on their own, without being pushed by Kerry (HINT HINT).  Kerry can take a step back, concede, and assume the election is over.  If it proves, two weeks from now, that Ohio has screwed up and that the certified total really does change the outcome -- which, everyone should realize, is very, very unlikely given these overall numbers -- then Kerry wins, whether he has "graciously conceded" or not.

        Personally, I do think there was quite a bit of fraud, but I don't think it was enough to change the outcome.  Florida is more odd, and I'd like to see recounts there perhaps even more than in Ohio.  Not because I think it would change the outcome, but because we need to have evidence that the system is working.

        There is no possible reason not to recount the votes.  After 2000, it would be a good exercise, either way, in determining whether the problems have been "fixed".

        But in-state Dems need to get off their asses and do it, and not wait for Kerry/Gore/Dean whoever to swoop down and rescue them.  For nationwide political reasons, they can't do that right now.

        •  I think, though (none / 1)

          that deal with "spoiled" votes wouldn't be automatic.  Someone has to take some kind of action to get the votes that were "spoiled" and therefore rejected looked at.  That automatic process only has to do with the provisional and absentee ballots.  It doesn't have anything to do with arguments that machines didn't tally the ballots correctly.
          •  Yes, it's not automatic. (none / 0)

            My understanding of Ohio law -- which is limited to what more knowledgable folks have been telling me -- is that it takes five people per county to request a recount, but the scope of the recount -- whether they would run it through the machines again, or hand-recount -- is unclear.  We need someone to clear that legal distinction up.

            But we need some Ohioans to step up and file the challenge, either way.  And so far I'm not hearing anyone has, which is just silly.

        •  Re: Ohio dems (none / 1)

          Why in the hell do you think every statewide office in Ohio is held by a Republican?  

          The Ohio party leadership has been asleep since Verne Riffe left.  

          That's why everyone in the US had better contribute time or money to the Jerry Springer for governor campaign.  Hey, if Arnold can win so can Jerry.  He is actually a very astute politician and I think he can win.  But he needs help from around the country.  

          Forget working on the Senate in O6.  If you want to help this country you had better get a democratic spine in Ohio.

          I hated Bush before it was cool.

          by daveriegel on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:50:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The results will change. (none / 0)

        There are obvious errors in Bush's favor in the vote counts. There are 3600-5000 votes for Bush that are obviously errors (4285 votes for Bush in a precinct where 635 votes were cast, for starters). My diary on this is here.
    •  WRONG reading of the law (none / 1)

      Candidates for an election have to call for a recount. 5 or more citizens can call for a recount about an ISSUE or QUESTION (think proposition). You want to get a recount. Talk to the Dems or to David Cobb in the Green party, but your emails won't work.
      •  unfortunately (none / 0)

        David Cobb was a write in - not on the ballot in Ohio, so I;m not sure how much help he would be in this particular instance, although I'm sure he'd be happy to halp as much as possible.
      •  Find an Elector (4.00 / 2)

        You are correct - only a candidate can do initiate a recount and get the undervoted ballots checked for hanging chad.

        But - my read of Ohio law is that the 20 Presidential Electors are in fact themselves the candidates up for election, and therefore THEY personally and individually have legal standing to initiate a recount (needing only a legal and PR team and lots of $$$).

        Start networking and maybe there's one out there who is as frustrated as we are.

        It's probably not appropriate to put their names here; it's really not appropriate for anyone who has real-life contact with any of them to describe that sort of negotiation in this sort of forum.  

        But as many people as possible should be thinking of their networks and should be passing this idea around wherever they can, to see if someone can persuade one of these people to do the significant that they may ever do for their country.

        List of Ohio's electors is here:
        http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/01/loc_elex1melect.html

    •  I'm replying to you (none / 0)

      because I've seen throughout the day how impassioned you are!

      What about getting Jerry Springer involved?  He's been a big Kerry advocate, and he must know tons of people in Ohio.

      His website is www.jerryspringer.com but it is blocked from view (appartently due to adult content) here at the office so I can't tell if there's an email address on the site.

      Anway, just a thought.

    •  YES!! (none / 0)

      The Kossacks have come back to the light!! Fight Team Fight!
    •  This is for your locker room... (none / 0)

      To: GOPGrrl

      Relax, Kerry lost and nothing will change that. Kerry and his supporters would have to turn everything on it's head. They are so demoralized by this election they have no will to do anything right now.
      23 posted on 11/04/2004 5:18:52 PM PST by msjhall
      [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

      This is my first post, so it is a little weird that the content comes from someone else.  I'm an independent who always votes the person over the party and I will have more to say when the diary phase of my registration kicks in.  Until then, fight the fucking power.

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