Daily Kos

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  •  If AOL (none / 0)

    can sensor content, and I am told they do, then we can be forbidden to organize on the web. Since the Dems raised money this year outside the corporate hegemony they have strong reasons to do it. The question is, can we stop them?

    "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

    by johnmorris on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:21:39 PM PDT

    •  We need to start thinking (none / 1)

      in terms of what has worked in the past. The Iraqi people seem to be giving them a run for their money. Not that I want that here, but think along the lines of Thomas Paine and the Federalist papers.....we need to start creating an underground network infrastructure, JUST IN CASE we need it.

      "Nothing more completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity than straightforward and simple integrity."--C.C. Colton

      by rcvanoz on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:27:36 PM PDT

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      •  Underground (none / 0)

        we need to start creating an underground network infrastructure, JUST IN CASE we need it. rcvanoz
        I smiled when I read that, fact is I live in Austalia and we already have developed one my guess is so have people in America. Finding them and joining up is probable the hardest thing, you can't actually advertise it. But as more and more rights are being taken away not just in America but most countries lose of the Internet has to be the one that would be most desireable by warmongers and least desireable by those who want access to the truth.

        by redrobin on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:33:02 PM PDT

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        •  Austalia... is that anywhere near Kamberra? (none / 0)

          or perhaps its a suburb of Vienna.  :)

          I'll seek out the alternative network in due course when John Howard's clampdown reaches the internet, too.

          by canberra boy on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:42:16 PM PDT

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          •  okay my Spelling is Bad (none / 0)

            Australia Sydney to be exact and the fact is Howard isn't to bad but have you noticed whatever happens in America starts to seep over. You know the abortion issue, religion in politics, hiding the facts, calling anyone who doesn't follow the party line a supporter of terrorists. Just those little things

            by redrobin on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:51:36 PM PDT

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            •  Ah yes (none / 0)

              the little things like lying to the nation to protect yourself or gain political advantage, frightening the population with false 'evidence' about boatloads of refugees (read 'terrorists')swarming our shores, invading Iraq solely because it provided domestic political advantage, exploiting and promoting racist tendencies in some Australians, signing away control of significant domestic cultural policies and health benefits to 'obtain' a Free Trade Agreement with the US...  don't get me started.  

              But John Howard didn't need to import those ideas.  He's smart enough to come up with them himself.  ;-)

              by canberra boy on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:05:32 PM PDT

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      •  Yes (none / 1)

        We need to have layered backups, including the older sort of federated BBS structure behind FidoNet and several others where isolated systems exchange messages by dialing each other over night.

        Let's just allow that Dr. Patridge may be right. Then let's suppose that Madsen's sources are real. If we're living in that world, and if the Netizens really do start to fully open that can of worms, AmBush Co's going to be strongly motivated to find a really good excuse to shut all this down in a hurry - tempered only by the business losses resulting from a complete shutdown of the Net. So at least we should be safe through Christmas shopping.

        Now, what's that date again when the pretender gets to fondle the only book he's ever read part of aside from My Pet Goat?

        by wytcld on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:39:46 PM PDT

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        •  but (none / 0)

          what about us passionate types who are willing to sacrifice all for the good fight, but have no idea what the heck any of this tech-lingo means?

          Will we be left behind?

          Is there any way to steer someone like me in the right direction without giving up the map to the secret staircase?
           

          by tepster on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:57:43 PM PDT

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      •  The choke point (none / 0)

        is the isp connection. The architecture of the internet is such that, once the package is in the loop, its impossible to intercept. That was the original design concept. But all of us buy access from some commercial on ramp. Mine is Southwestern Bell, a clear corporate hag. Any attempt to control content on the web has got to be at the isp level so, does anybody know of a pirate isp? (This is the opinion of a structural engineer, if I can't hit it wiht a 6 pound hammer I don't believe in it. Someone who knows something will, I hope, correct me.)

        "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

        by johnmorris on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:42:46 PM PDT

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        •  What about satellite access? (none / 0)

          To a company based outside the US?

          If they "regulate" they internet, I am out of here the very next day. The internet is extremely dangerous to them, and is a bastilion of immorality to those whom seek it.

          Victim of the *other* war America is waging.

          by nephalim on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:55:51 PM PDT

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        •  Technology (none / 0)

          Satelites and wireless networks I believe may be a very good combination.

          by redrobin on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:56:18 PM PDT

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        •  Internet can be replaced (none / 0)

          If need be, the internet can be replaced by a mesh of interconnected wi-fi networks. These wireless networks could eventually interconnect across the country, creating a completely distributed communications network that won't be controllable by the government. Think of it as similar to the free radio broadcasts of WWII in Europe, like France.

          Are you shaking or biting the invisible hand?

          by puppethead on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:12:48 PM PDT

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          •  But (none / 0)

            do these have the same internet architecture. The important bit is the separation of the message into discrete packets that can take multiple independent paths. That's why it was first worked out, to maintain communication in the event of a nuclear magnetic storm. Any linear connection can be intercepted.

            "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

            by johnmorris on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:33:18 PM PDT

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            •  Same networking protocol (4.00 / 2)

              The short answer is yes. The geeky answer follows.

              Information is sent across the internet using a protocol called TCP/IP. It is at this level that data are broken into small, routable packets. Each of these packets makes it to the destination via an optimal route. Special devices called routers can help optimize the paths, but every computer on the network can do routing to its neighbors.

              To make it easier for humans to use, there is an addressing system called DNS that is used to convert numerical machine addresses to domains that we are familiar with, such as dailykos.com. DNS has some shortcomings and is increasingly being controlled by corporate interests. DNS is not required for networking but is merely a convenience for humans. It is also nothing more than a protocol, and an alternate DNS structure can be set up. All it takes is for everyone to agree to use it.

              The bottom line is that as long as we can get the hardware, a new network can be created that is not dependent on any of the existing internet infrastructure. And if new protocols need to be defined, they can be.

              Are you shaking or biting the invisible hand?

              by puppethead on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:58:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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