Daily Kos

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  •  you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse ... (4.00 / 2)

    and that's what the report suggests ... strategic communication to fix the problem. U.S. actions in Iraq are radicalizing the Arab world, exactly what the perpetrators of 9/11 wanted to happen.

    -5.63 -6.62 America in Iraq: never in the field of human conflict was so little achieved by so great a country at such vast expense.

    by dolphindude on Tue Dec 07, 2004 at 05:47:39 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  radicalizing the arab world? (none / 0)

      ummm...the arab world has been quite radical for some time now.  I think it is naive to think that changing policies in the mideast is going to change many minds at this point. the damamge has been done.
      •  cannot speak for sme else but... (none / 1)

        what i think dolphin dude is implying is that the islamic fundamentalists have gained more support since the invasion and mishandling of iraq.

        of course "mishandling" is putting it mildly, what with thousands of innocent iraqis killed, human rights abuses etc.etc.

        "The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie"

        by Little Hamster on Tue Dec 07, 2004 at 07:38:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  indeed, however (3.00 / 2)

          the 911 attacks occured before our invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, from which we can imply that the radicalization of Arabs and Islam were well underway.  It just seems that discussions on Kos regarding terrorism always center on what the West has done to invite this, and never really seems to touch on the issue of Islamo-facism, or radicalism, or terrorism.....however you choose to label it
        •  Arab militiants were radical but not winning the (4.00 / 2)

          hearts and minds of the Arab world. When the U.S. invaded Iraq, the objective of the 9/11 hijackers was realized. The Arab man in the street, who before the invasion couldn't care less for the Islamic fundies, is now paying attention to them.

          -5.63 -6.62 America in Iraq: never in the field of human conflict was so little achieved by so great a country at such vast expense.

          by dolphindude on Tue Dec 07, 2004 at 08:14:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i just have to disagree (none / 0)

            with you dolphindude.  While the Iraq war has been a disaster for the US image, 911 was celebrated by many an Arab man in the street.  If not celebrated, then certainly not condemned.  While i am in no way saying all arabs disliked us before the IW, certainly a large percentage did.  I had a friend vacationing in Morrocco on 911, as she wept in the lobby of her hotel, Morroccons were dancing and laughing in celebration.  While this is only anecdotal, it speaks to feelings that were already present in the arab world before the IW
            •  Long time history (4.00 / 3)

              The west (principally the U.S., France, and Britain) has been screwing around with Arabs and Muslims for more than a century (including training thugs to use religious fundamentalism as a useful method of control).

              Lately three developments have fundamentally changed how Arabs and Muslims respond:

              1. There is growing consciousness among more Arabs (in particular) that they are stuck under repressive regimes with limited opportunities, and that the U.S. backs these regimes

              2. The likes of Al Jazeera fuel bitter outrage and hatred of the U.S. by televising, nightly, carnage from the Iraq debacle and Israel, which we now support in any outrage, no questions asked.  (Check out Henry Siegman in the New York Review of Books on Sharon's blatant, appalling "apartheid" strategy -- they feel so untouchable that they've casually outlined it in detail in recent interviews for major newspapers: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17591 )

              3. We trained and showered resources on the Mujahadeen (our brilliant response to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan), from which one or more broad international networks -- Al Qaeda for starters -- have now sprung; so now there is a transnational, sophisticated set of organizations to benefit from and channel some of the outrage.

              A propaganda campaign is going to fix this?  Maybe Wolfowitz wants to use his new sub-ministry of propaganda (assuming its funded) to try and buy Al Jazeera.  Helping steer and consolidate most of U.S. media into the hands of foaming-at-the-mouth right-wing partisans seems to have worked for them in the U.S -- they probably think they can just replicate the business model overseas...
      •  bomb em all! (none / 0)

        <sarcasm>
        Yee hah!  before the Iraq war only 50% of Arabs saw the US as an Evil Empire, now 98% do!

        kewl. thats progress! gives us a good excuse to bomb the entire mid-east!  (except Israel)
        </sarcasm>
        I suspect, from talking to people I have met from Iran and Iraq that the "Arab World" is not one monolitic entity with one opinion. There are radical factions, and moderate factions, and a lot of people who don't care and just want to survive.

        The problem for US image in Iraq now as I see it, is that they just dont have enough TV's to watch Fox News.

        Perhaps our first reconstruction effort in Iraq should be to buy every household a TV (and prob ably a generator since I guess the power infrastructure is lousy) in hopes of dissuading them from what they are seeing in the streets!

        Then they'll learn how good this war is for them!

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