Daily Kos

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  •  Will Michael Moore be there with a camera ? (none / 0)

    This is great stuff !

    Let's get some Democracy for America

    by murphy on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 12:18:39 AM PDT

    •  I want pictures! (none / 0)

      By pulling this stunt, Kerry is by default linking Bush personally to the ads. Smart, smart move. Cleland is out for vengence, and Rassman is no doubt PO'ed as well. And now there's rumors that McCain will be bumped from speaking at the RNC because of this shit (though that could turn out to be total dross).

      We'll have to see if the Russian stuff pushes the Swifties off the air. Not completely, I dare say, since any news regarding the president is by default news and will make it on the air.

      Also, if the Russian airplane crashes turn out to be Chechen rebels, I'm not sure it will be covered that much here, considering how long that mess has been going on.

      "[Republicans] swapped principle for power. They ended up with neither. They deserved to lose." --Alan Greenspan

      by lanshark on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 12:56:42 AM PDT

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      •  Well... (none / 0)

        And now there's rumors that McCain will be bumped from speaking at the RNC because of this shit (though that could turn out to be total dross).

        I don't know about the convention but, as I said in my post below, there is this line in the article:

        ...McCain was scheduled to campaign next week with Bush before the Republican convention.

        Typo or time to say hummmmmmm?

        by kimo on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 01:07:39 AM PDT

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      •  Don't worry (none / 0)

        if it starts to look bad for Bush, Tom Ridge will be out with another terror warning.

        I'm actually more worried that the Russian incident will give Bush more fodder for his "war on terror" blather. Even if it isn't the Chechens, I have a feeling that Putin won't appreciate Bush butting in.

        BUSH: Like a rock...but dumber.
        Stewart/Olberman 2008!

        by mugsimo on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 02:17:42 AM PDT

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    •  omg no (4.00 / 4)

      NO MICHAEL MOORE at Crawford with Cleland and Rassman!

      We don't need an issue as serious as this get associated with an entertainer that has a bad reputation with more than half of America.

      by beanoctco on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 01:52:29 AM PDT

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      •  STILL beating up on Moore? (3.66 / 3)

        It must be great to have SO MANY allies in this fight against Bush that some of us feel we should crap all over a major friend because we don't like his style.  Michael Moore puts his ass on the line for all of us.

        don't always believe what you think...

        by claude on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 06:18:09 AM PDT

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        •  it's not beating up (4.00 / 5)

          the whole point of kerry sending cleland and rassman is that they have immense authenticity and credibility on veretans' issues. the way the media sees moore, if he was there, that credibility would be completely shot and the story wouldn't be "war hero with one limb delivers letter to bush", but "michael moore delivers letter to bush." it negates the entire story the campaign is trying to tell here.

          by thirdparty on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 06:24:44 AM PDT

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        •  It's not beating up (4.00 / 2)

          Moore is a propagandist- would even he dispute that?  As a result, he doesn't have any credibility to the non-converted.  

          I loved F9/11- but this is a job for someone like Cleland a veteran, a moderate, and a prior victim of Bush slander.

          McCain?

          by Preston on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 06:27:38 AM PDT

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          •  "propagandist" implies untruths. (4.00 / 3)

            Interesting how  a movie that does nothing but present facts  (has anyone found an untruth in F911?) is described, even by Kossians, as propaganda.

            While I agree that Moore's accompaning Cleland and Rassmussen to Crawford would become the story in the eyes of the SCLM, and that that would not be productive, I have heard far too many Kossians dis Moore to let it go by without a word.

            Dis Moore, you'll hear from me.  He is carrying water, with no bodyguards, for all of us.

            don't always believe what you think...

            by claude on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 07:29:40 AM PDT

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            •  Propaganda (none / 1)

              Propaganda:
              The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

              Sure, Moore uses facts- but also innuendo. It doesn't detract from your liberal credentials to admit that.

              Take the Saudis:  Moore suggests a malicious connection between Bush and the Saudis with lots of slow motion photography of them shaking hands.  But what's the implication?  That the Saudis, Bush, and Bin Laden all conspired to destroy the WTC?  It may be effective but it isn't rigorously attempting to unearth the truth.

              McCain?

              by Preston on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 07:48:23 AM PDT

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            •  First... (none / 1)

              "Propaganda" is not a dirty word: The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause... Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.

              However, I wil allow that a negative connotation has become attached to it.

              Nevertheless, a propagandist is exactly what Moore is -- and he has said so himself. Michael Moore is, to my mind, a genius; but he belongs on the outside, whence he can properly and strenuously hold everyone's feet to the fire. Once allowed into someone's camp, he loses that outsider credibility. Those are the arguments against attaching Moore to Kerry that have to do with Moore himself.

              The arguments against Moore being attached to Kerry that have to do with Kerry have been outlined above pretty succinctly. A recap: Moore is an incredibly polarizing figure on the left, and as such can only do Kerry good if he is separate -- much like a one man 527.

              -9.63, -7.03 Rage, rage against the Lying of the Right

              by Maryscott OConnor on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 07:51:25 AM PDT

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      •  Whether or not the man himself is present, (none / 0)

        this kind of "gonzo" stunt will inevitably draw comparisons to Moore.  Even though he's not involved, it's very much his style.  The Kerry campaign should acknowledge the inspiration, but explicitly state that it does not constitute an endorsement of all Moore's claims.

        by contraption on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 10:46:56 AM PDT

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