Daily Kos

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  •  If we're going tp pile on, (none / 0)

    then I wish they'd stop bringing up Bush and Cheney's military issues. Most people already know about this, and they just don't care. I know it's unfair that they get away with this shit while Kerry is hammered for every little word in Vietnam, but that's the way the public and the media is. Saying Cheney and/or Bush were draft dodgers won't change that. It just sounds desperate.
    •  I usually agree with this (none / 0)

      but I liked Kerry kind of reclaiming the Vietnam issue. Even if it doesn't resonate with swing people or whatever, it's something that resonates a lot with the base, who need to be cheered up.

      Now I'd like him to attack them where they are strongest -- terrorism. Hit him again and again -- vacation in August 2001, pulling out of Afghanistan before finishing the job. repeat.

      Incidentally, I have no particular problem with fight. But that's me.

      •  It's more than that (none / 0)

        Seemingly every time any of Kerry's security votes were criticized, or anytime Bush went on the attack, the response is/was, "Don't criticze Kerry's war record/Bush and Cheney are chickenhawks". It's overkill and tiresome and doesn't really reach the audience they think it reaches.
        •  I agree. (none / 0)

          But it reaches the base, which is what I was saying. You need to get your base back on board. Plus it shows a bit of guts talking about Vietnam after what happened, and Kerry has to deal with the idea that he's weak. And he's a veteran so if he wants to defend his record and call out the chickenhawks, I'm in no position to tell him not to.

          But in general I agree with you -- they have to get beyond it. Hit Bush as soft on terrorism again and again, and then talk about all the issues where Kerry already beats Bush.

    •  Yeah (none / 0)

      I'm sick of that too.

      I'm just tearing my hair out sometimes because at the end of the day, I think Kerry is a really fascinating person who could well be a very great president and it will be the biggest goddamned shame if he & his people can't get voters to see that.  You know, maybe this is unfortunately old school in today's political climate, but Kerry is a serious, trustworthy, and honorable man and has an immense amount of integrity.  He doesn't sell out his friends for political gain and he doesn't assassinate the character of his political enemies like the petty, miserable thugs currently installed in the White House, these fools who have no regard for ethics and common decency.  Maybe his advisers think emphasizing such qualities doesn't poll well because most politicians are more or less bereft of them and therefore the polls say, don't try to show it, you will look fake.  But Kerry's the real deal.

      So why the fuck do we have to talk about fights and Vietnam?????  And even if we do, the story for me is not really even about Kerry getting hit by shrapnel or pulling Jim Rassman out of the water, and it's annoying that the Swift Liars managed to reduce the issue to these isolated little moments, taking it out of the larger narrative.

      •  Re: Yeah (none / 0)

        "Kerry is a serious, trustworthy, and honorable man and has an immense amount of integrity."

        That and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

        Actually, all of those things will become very important after January.  But right now, we need a candidate who will fight for Americans.

        •  No.... (none / 0)

          we need a candidate who's going to win the election.  I think I'd agree more with the "Fight" theme if it was more than two days old.  Consistent messages win.  Flavor of the month goes home.

          "President Obama will be the most liberal President of our lifetime."

          by rashomon on Fri Sep 03, 2004 at 04:01:31 PM PDT

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          •  Two Days Old?!? (none / 0)

            Where'd you get that?  Kerry, and especially Edwards, have been talking about "standing up to" and "defending" and "looking out for" and "protecting" and all the other verbs that fit into the "fighting for you" theme ever since the early days of the primary season.  About the only Dem candidate who didn't run on a variant of this was Lieberman (and possibly Graham, who's rationale for running never was clear to me).  

            The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

            by DHinMI on Fri Sep 03, 2004 at 04:06:59 PM PDT

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        •  Blah (none / 0)

          Cannot ward off intense visceral dislike of that wack-ass phrase.  

          But what do I know, people seem to like it coming from Edwards and to me he comes off as verging on phony a fair amount of the time.  Agreeably phony and not at all malicious, but nevertheless a bit.. fake.

          This is why I could never have a career in politics.  I'm too much of a snob.

          And yet I still think the "fight" thing is not inspiring in the least.  It's the very opposite of a big, bold idea.  Can we have some of those please?

          •  Re: Blah (none / 0)

            "This is why I could never have a career in politics.  I'm too much of a snob."

            Nothing wrong with being a snob.  You've just got to be able to use your imagination to walk in some very different shoes.

            "And yet I still think the "fight" thing is not inspiring in the least."

            Bill Clinton used the word a lot, and he made it inspiring.  There are big advantages to having a really good messenger.

            •  Bill Clinton (none / 0)

              Can make just about anything inspiring.  We are damned lucky he uses his skills for the forces of good.  Do you know just how much more destruction people like Dick Cheney and Richard Perle could wreak on this world if they had half the charm of Bill Clinton?  It's such a lucky thing that whenever Dick Cheney tries to show even the slightest bit of good humor, he just manages to look more evil.
          •  I agree with you (none / 0)

            daria, but what you and I are fighting is also "conventional wisdom" of the election industry.  I think I have a visceral dislike of this for two reasons: like you I also find it ingenuous and formulaic.  But I also have a visceral response to the fact that it does work; I hate that I live in a culture that is so politically one-dimensional.  

            Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

            by a gilas girl on Fri Sep 03, 2004 at 06:43:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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