Pat's point was, I gather that in order to reclaim the republican party from the empire-mad international policemen and give the reins back to the isolationists Bush had to be re-elected and the whole fiasco blow up in Wolfowitz, Rummy, Cheney et al.'s faces...problem is, (two problems) the 'discredit' he seeks will only be applied posthumously to the regime, probably 10 years or more from now, and helping the republican party is serving the wrong master as far as I'm concerned...natter...natter...natter...