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  •  honesty isnt politics (none / 0)

    i dont care if "tragic" is honest. fact is, there are women who are "thrilled" they had an abortion. if hillary said "abortion is thrilling" would you think she is honest?

    and also, how do you know that anyone ever called their abortion tragic? you know that about as much as someone calling it thrilling.

    my point is this: Political success is easy to measure. Its measured in elections. Since 94, we lost the house, the senate, and the white house TWICE. ..Clintons--both bill and now hillary's approach to abortion rights has failed. if you cared about abortion rights, you'd want to change the rhetoric.

    those were good times, as far as we knew --colbert

    by AmericanHope on Tue Jan 25, 2005 at 10:58:48 AM PDT

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    •  We lost the house, (none / 1)

      senate and white house to pro-life people and you think it's the "rare" in "safe, legal and rare" that's the problem?

      I'm not saying we lost because of abortion, but you seem to be. Are you saying that Dems would win more by focusing more on abortion rights?

      by Erin on Tue Jan 25, 2005 at 11:09:38 AM PDT

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      •  yes, and other REAL principles (none / 0)

        absolutely. if the Dems actually stood up and said what they stood for--and stood strong-- they'd win more votes. If you look at opinion polls, alot of what W did was unpopular--but he beat Kerry. He beat Kerry b/c his message was "i mean what i say and i say what i mean"

        That goes a LONG way. esp in red states.

        The #1 hit that kerry kept taking over and over again was his "flip flopper" indecisive status. Its also why Rove was most afraid of running against Dean, who seemed to believe in what he said [bty, i didnt support dean, im just pointing that out]..

        those were good times, as far as we knew --colbert

        by AmericanHope on Tue Jan 25, 2005 at 11:25:58 AM PDT

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        •  okay (none / 1)

          but that's just this last election cycle. And, I'd venture to say that abortion is the one issue that most people see both parties as sticking to their guns on. I've known a number of Catholic women who vote Republican solely on abortion - they see Democrats as hard line pro-abortion.

          In terms of a general perception of Dem wishy-washyness, I'd say it has to do with caving on labor issues and the mainstream media's parroting of Repub spin.

          by Erin on Tue Jan 25, 2005 at 11:36:21 AM PDT

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    •  I know (none / 0)

      Because two of my ex girlfriends have dealt with teen pregnancy.

      One totally didn't think the baby was a human life and suffered like all hell through the decision because her boyfriend was an asshole and she loved him.

      One thought the baby was a human life, but was pro choice regardless, as a "lesser of two evils" kind of rationale. It was a damn hard choice, and in the end decided to have the baby and give it up for adoption.

      I wouldn't have used the word tragic. But when you get a phone call from somebody who is being shunned by her friends and even her parents, literally bawling their eyes out, I refuse to acknowledge your speculative equivelency between "thrilling" and "tragic".

      The fact that you think we lost the house, senate, and presidency because of a few abortion stances illustrates your narrowmindedness.

      Big tent. Many issues. Broad philosophical principles.

      It's not a campaign. It's a movement. Will you stand up?

      by danthrax on Tue Jan 25, 2005 at 11:43:42 AM PDT

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