Daily Kos

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  •  Good point (3.94 / 19)

    The "it's my site" stuff relates to what I write. When people demand I write about a topic I don't feel compelled or qualified to write about. I don't tell people what to diary about, so I don't appreciate people telling me what to write about.

    The community stuff is a seperate beast. It's not my community. But it's also not EVERYONE'S community, either. I have set unofficial guidelines -- it's a site for Democratic partisans. Everyone else is welcome, with the understanding that it's a home for Democrats. So Republicans, Greens, etc, are welcome. But it's not their home.

    You don't go to Synagogue to argue Christianity. You don't go to Yoga class and demand to do aerobics. I know I don't make this point explicit, but I prefer a little bit of gray area. As long as it's not written in stone, we won't have well-meaning Greens being kicked off the site by fundamentalist Kosmopolitans.

    Beyond that, my responsibility is to prevent the site from degenerating into the morass that I have seen countless political sites fall into. Flame wars and all that jazz.

    The community can usully police itself, but given the structure of the site, a small minority can prop up disruptive posters. That's currently the case, and I've made an executive decision to clean house. Like I said, most of these posters where on the verge of automatic expulsions, but were being propped up by their small group of supporters. So I took action.

    The more hands-off I am with the community, the better. But I will take action when necessary to work out kinks in the machinery.

    But I'll take your advice and find a way to say all of this in a pithy manner. Thanks.

    by kos on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 11:44:56 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Please add this or similar text (4.00 / 2)

      to the FAQ, especially the part about Democrats.

      Also, make clear that dKos is not an official representative of the Democratic Party and thus not subject to any federal campaign finance laws on advocacy.  Thus, non-Democrats can't be banned, but can be 'socially incented' to be polite.

      by dotpeople on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 11:50:31 AM PDT

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    •  Nice (4.00 / 2)

      "You don't go to Yoga class and demand to do aerobics"

      I'm just heading to a yoga class now.  Maybe I'll see if the instructor is more accomodating of dissent than Kos :-)

      by Feral Dem on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 11:50:47 AM PDT

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    •  think of it this way (4.00 / 2)

      Think of kos as a benevolent diety that created this universe and sometimes he has to reach down from the heavens (our gods don't live in Asgard or on Mt. Olympus, but in a place called "Scoop") and set things right in the universe.

      If you are interested in the politics of Proviso Township in Cook County, Illinois, visit Proviso Probe.

      by Carl Nyberg on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 12:00:38 PM PDT

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    •  Please do post something on your registration page (4.00 / 2)

      or in your FAQs.

      I read dailykos for quite a whie before I joined.
      I also waited a while before I started posting regularly in replies to threads.

      Until two days ago, I was blissfully ignorant to the fact that this was a partisan site. How you decide to set your criteria for your site is entirely your perrogative, of course, but perhaps alot of the so-called bile and subsequent bannings could have been avoided if you clearly state up front and uequivocally that this is a biased, partisan site. Just an idea.

      What always kept me coming back here was the diversity of views across the anti-right spectrum and the lack of blind partisan political bias (or atleast that is how it appeared to me, anyhow) and I would hope that the end goal is not to simply create an echo chamber for partisan group think (which I don't think helps any political party in the long run). And speaking as an Indy (albeit former Dem who does alot of work for Dems but despises partisan hackery) some could argue that even sniping at the DLC wing of the party is disloyal to the party and as a result is not partisan enough. So what are the criteria? That's just my .02

      So yes, if the blog has an outright partisan agenda and criteria for belonging to the community that is going to be enforced, then put it up front for the world to see.

      Also, why not give members the option to un-subscribe from the blog membership (which from what I can tell does not exist)?

      (If you can read this post, I guess I have not been purged. yet.)

      Be The Media

      by wild salmon on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 12:19:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well, Greens and Indies have always been welcomed (3.80 / 5)

        depending on presentation, but the idea is to treat each other civilly, that's all. This isn't groupthink or censorship. It is a request to drop the "Dems are spineless, cojones-less (fill in blank) AND you are, too, if you agree with (fill in name)."

        Not so much the first part, but the second part was getting out of hand.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by DemFromCT on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 12:24:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Fair enough (4.00 / 3)

          In the real world I actually do alot of conflict resolution work- and that requires sitting at the table with a diverse group of people that represent larger groups of people who usually hate the other groups in order to identify issues, common goals, and develop solutions.

          Respect is always the key. Those who do not understand that simple rule, don't have a seat at the table for long.

          So that much I do understand.

          I just have a strong aversion to the word "partisan" and all it implies. Many Indies feel that blind partisanship is the reason why our govt and our country are so fucked up poltically speaking. So when I read that this is a partisan blog, it bums me out as I have found partisanship actually prevents open debate, discourages discourse, and ultimately hobbles a party, and hurts the country.

          I am loyal to our Constitution and our Bill of Rights, not a political party, which is why I am a registered Independent with no declared party affiliation.

          Be The Media

          by wild salmon on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 12:43:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  this has never been an all-Dem site (none / 1)

            just a Dem-focused site. No expects you to toe the party line. We don't. But we also don't become totally heedless of what effect our tone and content have.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by DemFromCT on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 12:52:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  asdf (none / 1)

              "No expects you to toe the party line. We don't."

              Sorry, but I think some do - not many - but some. And they're quick to hand out the troll ratings.

              I absolutely have no problem with downrating people who make vile and viscious comments about the party, but it seems that occassionally someone will post their political party or non-party affiliation and they are then troll rated just for that.

              There's also a subtler effect here: when one of the better known kossacks posts a blast against the Dem party and they are simply forgiven because of who they are.

              I have a real problem with understanding this difference between rating comments and rating people, as I've expressed elsewhere on this thread. It makes me uncomfortable to see people rated as opposed to their comments and I feel like I'm in the minority on that.

              As for the partisan slant of this blog, I didn't know, for a while after I came here, that this was a blog for Dem party supporters until kos posted a comment about it. I think it's important that that point be made clearly and I don't agree that those from other parties would then automatically decide not to post here.

              I'm a Canadian Liberal party supporter and, although I support many Dem party policies, I tread more carefully around here knowing that my Liberal party and the Dem party have their differences. That's not about supporting "groupthink" (a term I abhor). It's about being respectful.

              As for kos saying that if you're not a Dem party supporter, this isn't really your "home" - well, that's unfortunate because I do consider this place as one of my homes.

              "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

              by catnip on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 01:43:44 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  update (none / 0)

                I just wrote a diary about this not being my "home".

                "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

                by catnip on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 02:10:09 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  you can interpret my statement however you wish (none / 0)

                but I think it's pretty clear. Put Green or Dem in your name and it means nothing... it's what you say, not your nic.

                Is my statement meant to apply to every one of 40,000 posters as far as behavior? No. But we have many international posters here from NZ to the (self-labeled) Canucks and Canadians and Brits, etc. They aren't Dems and aren't expected to be.

                As to what's the Dem party line, what IS the Dem party line? Darned if I know. That's why we talk about DNC chair so much.

                In any case, it is the post and not the poster you should be rating. Good point.

                "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                by DemFromCT on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 02:12:27 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  The posts I have a problem with (4.00 / 2)

                are the ones that make vile and vicious comments about other dKos-ers.

                Well... and also the other ones that are clearly just thrown out there for the sole purpose of starting a fight.

                It shouldn't matter if someone wants to rant against part, or even all, of the Democratic party. (Some days, depending on the headlines, those sentiments seem to constitute 70% of the comments around here! So that sort of thing is quite obviously allowed.)

                It's not unreasonable to take a known poster's past history into account, either. Maryscott and paradox, for instance, both always write emotionally... and well. If they say something extreme, I know that's just a personal explosion, and I'm not going to interpret it as a deliberate attempt to stir up trouble and spoil things for others. If I don't know the handle, I don't have as much information to go on, and then it's easier to misjudge intent.

                As for coming from a different perspective... I've been glad many times that I decided to include my Canadian-ness in my handle. Means I don't have to keep explaining every time I post. (But because people do get acquainted with certain posters over time, many will remember that you are Canadian every time you post, whether you mention it or not. So don't worry... and anyway, I think you are becoming one of the better known Kossacks. To me, anyway. Your comments are always courteous and thought-provoking.)

                Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is.

                by Canadian Reader on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 04:30:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  there is a vast difference (3.80 / 5)

            between partisanship, and "blind partisanship."

            FrederickClarkson.com and TalktoAction.org

            by Frederick Clarkson on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 01:00:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  rating question (none / 1)

      "Like I said, most of these posters where on the verge of automatic expulsions, but were being propped up by their small group of supporters. So I took action."

      It's my understanding that we rate the comment, not the person, but it seems you consider that as "propping up".

      When I review hidden comments, I see many that have been troll-rated because the person is seen by many as a troll. That's not how I rate. I need to know your thoughts on this because I don't want to be seen as somebody's "supporter" simply because I didn't think a specific comment didn't justify troll ratings.

      Thanks.

      Also, how's the rethink of the ratings system coming along?

      "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

      by catnip on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 01:01:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  propping up (none / 0)

        I've actually seen this happen on a few occasions just in the past few days, where a bunch of TU's gave an offensive, disparaging post a 0 rating, and then another poster asked people to give it 4s so it won't disappear, because they think it's funny or agree with it or whatever. So what kos says not only is happening, but people are also announcing their intentions to keep these posts from disappearing, well meaning or otherwise.

        by chantedor on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 05:49:58 PM PDT

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      •  you're right for an individual post (none / 0)

        and that's what you're supposed to do based on your judgement. When the same poster has multiple posts in that situation, it changes the equation a bit, though. Kos' original message had a lot to do with consistency and patterns. So think about it if you find yourself doing the same poster repeatedly... and your right to do so if you think even then a post deserves uprating.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by DemFromCT on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 05:55:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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