Daily Kos

View Story | 33 comments

  •  OMG. THIS Is Unreal (1.00 / 2)

    if Al Gorf is the Best we can manage to dredge up and expect the voters to muster one iota of motivation for.. then INDEED the democratic party is in serious, serious trouble.

    you're talking about a candidate so entirely feeble that he couldn't even muster a win in his own home state, and several other states which were a lock for Clinton.

    please get a clue. some of you are very deep in denial here.

    "Cigna cannot decide who is going to live and who is going to die." -- Nataline's mother

    by Superpole on Wed Oct 12, 2005 at 07:32:54 PM PDT

    •  During the 1990s (none / 1)

      Tennessee gradually went Republican. East Tennessee was already very conservative.  Not to mention, Gore was no longer representing Just Tennessee, his Vice Presidency meant he was assisting Clinton in representing the entire nation.

      In 2000, Tennessee had 2 GOP Senators, a majority GOP house delegation, and a GOP Governor. Just like Utah.  Should Gore have won Utah too?

      You say that Gore lost states that were a lock for Clinton. Perahps they would have stayed as such if Slick Willy kept his damn pecker in his pants, as opposed to putting in into Monica Lewinsky's mouth.

      by TLS66 on Wed Oct 12, 2005 at 08:08:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good response. (none / 0)

        I'm so sick of hearing about Gore "losing" Tennessee.  The state is too conservative to vote for him, or any Democratic nominee, now that the Rethugs have stirred up hysteria about guns and fetuses and getting God back into the schools. To win Tennessee, Gore would have to take a number of positions that would certainly lose the support of Kossacks!

        by Kentucky DeanDemocrat on Wed Oct 12, 2005 at 08:51:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Weak Response (none / 0)

          there's quite a disconnect here.

          clearly there are a number of folks here clinging to the belief that numerous swing voters IN RED STATES who are going to vote democratic in the next presidential election.. if only we have the right candidate.

          but here you're implying that between 1996 when Clinton WON TN and 2000 when Gore managed to LOSE TN, that in that 3.5 to 4 year span, Tennessee turned into a huge red state.. basically overnight? and that NOBODY other than a total conservative can now win TN?

          please give me a break.

          in addition, if there are several states.. we may as well also talk about Ohio, Wisconsin, West Virgina, South Carolina, Florida that are now "locks" as red states.. just what states does the democratic party intend to WIN to make up the obvious defecit in electoral votes?

          "Cigna cannot decide who is going to live and who is going to die." -- Nataline's mother

          by Superpole on Fri Oct 14, 2005 at 12:55:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Clinton/Gore won TN by 2.4% in 1996 (none / 1)

        These factors below sufficiently explain Gore's TN loss for me:
        • Clinton/Gore won TN by only 2.4% in 1996 (link)
        • Clinton had an extramarital fallatio performed to him, and got impeached for it, that contibuted heavily to a 12-20% deficit in the presidential polls for Gore against Bush in 3/99.
        • TN is a one of the reddest, and "bible-beltiest" states in the US.
        • there has been a steady southern red-shift since the late 60s, which was quite precipitous during the Clinton years, for partly obvious reasons.

        From the wiki page on the 1996 election, , here were the close states in that election:


        Close states in 1996

           1. Kentucky, 0.96%
           2. Nevada, 1.02%
           3. Georgia, 1.17%
           4. Colorado, 1.37%
           5. Virginia, 1.96%
           6. Arizona, 2.22%
          7. Tennessee, 2.41%
           8. Montana, 2.88%
           9. South Dakota, 3.46%
          10. North Carolina, 4.69%
          11. Texas, 4.93%
          12. Mississippi, 5.13%
          13. Indiana, 5.58%
         14. Florida, 5.70%
          15. South Carolina, 6.04%
          16. Missouri, 6.30%
         17. Ohio, 6.36%
          18. North Dakota, 6.81%
          19. Alabama, 6.97%
          20. New Mexico, 7.33%
          21. Oklahoma, 7.81%
          22. Oregon, 8.09%
          23. Pennsylvania, 9.20%
          24. New Hampshire, 9.95%

        I am willing to state that Gore would've won in a landslide, had it not been for the blow job (despite the part of red-shift that was unrelated to the blowjob/impeachment). Yes, Clinton had fun, and Gore ended up paying for it.

        Most of us Gore-supporters don't really want to make a potential Gore run in 2008 to be about the 2000 election, but the provocative and specious posts like yours induce the need to do so.

        Evan Bayh is a McCain/Lieberman clone.

        by NeuvoLiberal on Wed Oct 12, 2005 at 09:22:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  correction (none / 0)

          well, for the nitpickers:

          2. Clinton had an extramarital fallatio performed to him, lied about it, and got impeached for the latter. And that contibuted heavily to a  12-20% deficit in the presidential polls for Gore against Bush in 3/99.

          Evan Bayh is a McCain/Lieberman clone.

          by NeuvoLiberal on Wed Oct 12, 2005 at 09:26:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Please GET REAL (none / 0)

          and please learn how to spell fellatio.

          the margin by which Clinton/Gore won TN and other swing states is totally irrelevant. what matters is they WON those states and the pertinent electoral votes-- and thus won the election.

          if you want to talk margin then let's DO talk about the margin by which Kerry lost OHIO to Bush and thus lost the election.

          SOME of you have somehow lost the fundamental equation here: it's about electoral votes, stupid.

          the "Clinton got blown" excuse as to why Gore lost in 2000 is about as weak as it gets. I truly have seen everything now.

          what a load.

          "Cigna cannot decide who is going to live and who is going to die." -- Nataline's mother

          by Superpole on Sat Oct 15, 2005 at 06:30:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (none / 0)

            -->"and please learn how to spell fellatio."

            Bravo, master!

            -->"the margin by which Clinton/Gore won TN and other swing states is totally irrelevant. what matters is they WON those states and the pertinent electoral votes-- and thus won the election."

            I was explaining a trend which lead to Gore losing TN, an often thrown about criticism.

            -->"if you want to talk margin then let's DO talk about the margin by which Kerry lost OHIO to Bush and thus lost the election."

            I won't disagree with that. But, Kerry was given some 300 million (+ some 300 million outside help), and a 5-10% lead over Bush in Jan-Feb'05 to win that goddamn election.

            -->"SOME of you have somehow lost the fundamental equation here: it's about electoral votes, stupid."

            No, we haven't. We are much too aware of that.

            -->"the "Clinton got blown" excuse as to why Gore lost in 2000 is about as weak as it gets. I truly have seen everything now."

            what a load"

            Your statement is BS, in turn. I have numbers to show the effect of the blowjob/impeachment on Gore (Yes, it was the most critical reason for the "loss"). But, I have a suspicion that it won't be a useful discussion with you.

            so take your attitude and take a hike.

            Evan Bayh is a McCain/Lieberman clone.

            by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Oct 15, 2005 at 09:55:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (none / 0)

            With your "Al Gorf" opening line at the top, you have established your intellectual mettle, as that of a raging troll.

            So, beat it.

            Evan Bayh is a McCain/Lieberman clone.

            by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Oct 15, 2005 at 10:00:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  pffftt..... lol (none / 1)

      Gore got more votes than Clinton ever did, including in those states that when to Clinton and not to Gore.  Clinton won because of Perot.

      Unseen Gore Video

      by TeresaInPa on Thu Oct 13, 2005 at 12:06:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Load (none / 0)

        you're kidding, right?

        Clinton won in 1996 because of Perot?

        gimme a break.

        "Cigna cannot decide who is going to live and who is going to die." -- Nataline's mother

        by Superpole on Fri Oct 14, 2005 at 12:49:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  no I am not kidding (none / 0)

          look at the numbers.  More people voted for Gore than Clinton.  
          Perot killed bush and Dole both because he took votes in key states they needed to win.

          Unseen Gore Video

          by TeresaInPa on Fri Oct 14, 2005 at 08:59:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  C'mon Teresa (none / 0)

            I agree-- there's no question Perot hurt poppy Bush in the 1992 election-- way more than Nader allegedly hurt Gore in 2000.

            but that's where midget man's influence begins and ends. he had nothing to do with Clinton winning in 1996. forget it.

            and the point is NOT that Gore got more votes than Clinton. the point is (and always will be) that he did not get those votes in the correct states in terms of the electoral tally.

            get real, please. you can't just rack up popular votes in places like Cali and Illinois which are solid dem states anyway-- and forget about states like Ohio, Tennessee, Arkansas, West Virginia, Florida and so forth.

            gimme a break. it's about ELECTORAL votes and you know it.

            "Cigna cannot decide who is going to live and who is going to die." -- Nataline's mother

            by Superpole on Sat Oct 15, 2005 at 06:21:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

View Story | 33 comments