Daily Kos

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  •  Selective memories?! (4.00 / 5)

    You mean, I have to remember his sighings in the first debate? Guess what, in real time no pundit noticed that. It took a couple of days till GOP or the media corps produced the spin. Just like with "inventing internet"...

    Gore lost the debate spin, not the debates themselves.

    Gore did not act that obviously annoying in the first debate. Just look at the first reactions and actual transcript objectively. It was a very delicate organised work of selecting the soundbits and ramming them through all MSM channels for whole weeks that formed those "debate memories". Perhaps the diligent activists were surprised themselves by the success.

    And you know what? In 2004 Bush learned a lot from Gore. He learned to sigh when he could not really answer (pretending that the remarks are ridiculous, whereas Gore was reacting to really ridiculous talk). His "character" was different in each of the three debates. And he got everything both ways! Is there anyone else who can be that lucky?

    Then there was the myth created that substance does not matter in presidential debates. Yeah, substance is irrelevant when outright lies of one candidate are kindly ignored, but trivial lapses of the other candidate (with whom he visited the Texas flood, how cramped are Florida school classes) are cruelly exaggerated. After all, it was Bush's math that was  fuzzy, but "fair and balanced" media corps decided otherwise!

    Gore played seriously in the debate game run by clowns. Even the moderator was concerned to support the Bushie moderator. And let's not forget, the third debate started with a backhanded "apology" to Gore.

    So yeah, the spin was memorably lost. But how much is this Gore's fault, and how much is this smallmindedness of scribes who were supposed to guide the debates objectively?

    •  In the penultimate paragraph, I meant (none / 0)

      "Even the moderator was concerned to support the Bushie spin". Sorry
    •  brilliant comment (none / 0)

      well done. it must have taken you an hour to compile those links. I hope you dont mind me quoting you verbatim (with attribution, natch) at DN.

      Nation-Building blog: purple politics, muscular liberalism, principled pragmatism

      by azizhp on Wed Oct 05, 2005 at 06:35:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You go das monde! (none / 1)

      I'm amazed how even liberals, who says Reps are stupid, buy the media spin and remember only what they could hear from them.

      So Gore lost the debates to Bush?

      Except that he didn't. He lost the second but won the other two, or scored a tie.

      October 3, 2000 debate

      ABC News Poll. Oct. 3, 2000.

      Gore    42%   
      Bush    39%
      Tie    13%

      Gallup/CNN/USA Today Poll. Oct. 3, 2000.

      Gore    48%
      Bush    41%

      October 11, 2000 debate

      Gallup/CNN/USA Today Poll. Oct. 11, 2000.
      Bush    49%
      Gore    36%
      Tie           13%

      ABC News Poll. Oct. 11, 2000.
      Bush    46%
      Gore    30%   
      Tie    18%   

      October 17, 2000

      Gallup/CNN/USA Today Poll. Oct. 17, 2000

      Gore    46%                   
      Bush    44%                   
      Tie    10%

      ABC News Poll. Oct. 17, 2000
      Gore    41%
      Bush    41%
      Tie    14%

      http://www.pollingreport.com/white.htm

      Do you think Clinton did better in 1992? No he didn't.

      Debate #1
      Perot beat Clinton and Bush

      A poll conducted by CNN/USA TODAY on Oct. 11, 1992 found that of those watching, 47 percent rated Perot the winner, 30 percent voted Clinton and 16 percent voted Bush.

      Debate #2
      Clinton beat Bush and Perot.

      A CNN/USA TODAY poll conducted Oct. 16-18, showed 58 percent calling Clinton the winner, 16 percent said Bush won and 15 percent said Perot.

      Debate #3
      Perot beat Clinton and Bush.

      A CNN/USA TODAY news poll taken after the third debate found that viewers thought Perot had won. Opinions, however, were tied between Clinton's and Bush's performances; 28 percent thought Clinton had done the best job, 28 percent Bush, and 37 percent said Perot.

      http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/debates/history.story/1992.html#debate1

      Now you could ask, how could Perot beat Clinton? The same Perot who was destroyed by Al Gore a year later?

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