Daily Kos

View Story | 212 comments

  •  Nice find. (none / 0)

    Thanks for sharing.

    by red clay dem on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 07:03:17 AM PDT

    •  LOVE (none / 0)

      your tag line.  When did he say that?

      Bill Sali

      by sophiebrown on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 07:44:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  1949 Nobel Prize acceptance speech (4.00 / 4)

        Here's the link.  It was his defiant response to the dawning fear of the nuclear age.  One of the best speeches of the 20th century, IMO.  And thanks!

        by red clay dem on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 07:59:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  thanks! (none / 1)

          it's important to remind ourselves that we are not the first to think we are standing on the edge of civilization.....

          Bill Sali

          by sophiebrown on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:21:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Right wingers care about their wallet. (none / 0)

            As long as Miers overly favors corporations they will not care about these lectures and the lecture program.

            Take back America

            http://tinyurl.com/8ghl8

            http://tinyurl.com/b97vk

            Where Republicans tread, innocent people end up dead.

            by buckfush777 on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 12:48:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  only partially right (none / 0)

              Only the corporatists care solely about their wallets. There will be plenty of social conservatives ready to spit blood, and the more we get Edward Kennedy to praise her for this stuff, the more they will have a conniption over her lack of public endorcement for social lunacy that is NOT supported by the majority of Americans.

              In an ideal world, the fundies go ape-sh&t over this nominee; the rest of America is agast at their public airing of their extremem views; the same fundies manage to quash her; Bush then nominates a fundie to do their bidding in a desperate attempt to stop the plunge in his numbers; and then Dems successfully filibuster some open fundie nutjob with Americas support, and use the whole confirmation as a soapbox to talk about how they are the party of sanity and the republicans want to do X crazty thing(s).

              Don't blame me....I voted for Kodos! Neo-Cons don't die....they just go to the private sector to regroup

              by coheninjapan on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 01:11:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  More from the "Count d'Nocount"'s speech (none / 0)

          _It is his privilege to help man endure by lifting his heart, by reminding him of the courage and honor and hope and pride and compassion and pity and sacrifice which have been the glory of his past.

          Someone once told me, "You're cynicism is costing you more than you think." But still Faulkner sings hope from his grave.

          "This chamber reeks of blood." -- Sen George McGovern, 1970

          by cotterperson on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 10:30:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then there's this ... more hope (4.00 / 4)

            WASHINGTON - Federal contracts for Hurricane Katrina recovery efforts that were handed out with little or no competition will be rebid to prevent any waste or abuse, FEMA chief R. David Paulison said Thursday. ...

            "All of those no-bid contracts, we are going to go back and rebid," he said of pacts that were worth millions of dollars.

            at Yahoo by AP

            "This chamber reeks of blood." -- Sen George McGovern, 1970

            by cotterperson on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 10:38:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm amazed.... (none / 1)

              that IS great news... I'm not trying to be smarmy in the slightest, under this administration, to take this large a step BACK to correct waste, its just wonderous...

              Perhaps, they've done it to save their asses because people would have seen in short time that the companies that were awarded the contacts were MASSIVELY cronyish in nature, and maybe they KNEW outright that they were wasteful in awarding them.... but just the fact that BEFORE, they wouldn't have CARED to rectify the situation... and now THIS.....

              It just goes to show that the media scrutiny, the dedicated bloggers unearthing their scummy things up, and people's outrage DOES do something.... even if they're doing this to save their own hides, its better than it was when people threw up their hands in disgust and exasperation and sat complacent..... thanks for posting that... it really made my day.

              "Be the change that you want to see in the world."- Gandhi

              by hopefulcanadian on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 10:47:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  sorry.... I should add (none / 1)

                perhaps it was because the new director of FEMA was actually chosen for his EXPERIENCE vs. cronyism, and he is actually doing a good job...
                (I was sort of being pessimistic before I realized)... either way its great news..

                "Be the change that you want to see in the world."- Gandhi

                by hopefulcanadian on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 10:52:10 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  One has to wonder if this... (none / 1)

              ... was intentional? From the same article...

              Sen. Susan Collins (news, bio, voting record), R-Maine, noted that hundreds of thousands of hurricane victims remain in hotel rooms and emergency shelters -- despite more than $2 billion already spent by FEMA for 120,000 temporary trailers and mobile homes. Only 109 Louisiana families have been put in those homes, while tens of thousands of state residents remain in shelters, she said.

              Perhaps so that Bush sometime down the road could argue how the poor are "living in hotel rooms" on government money and how we shouldn't be paying folks to live in hotel rooms...

              Or it could be the fact that they're all incompetent...

              "Bubba, what did I tell you about starin' into the sun? You want to become a Democrat or somthin'?"

              by feloneouscat on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 10:50:33 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  The wing nuts (none / 0)

          do not feel good about this new information.

          MIERS & STEINEM [Stanley Kurtz ]
          http://corner.nationalreview.com/

          by jackieca on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 10:44:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  My favortite (none / 1)

          "I believe that man will not merely endure: he will prevail."

          It's under my picture in my college yearbook.

          You get a big fat 4 red clay.

          by Cousin Vinny on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 10:55:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  My college thesis was called (none / 0)

          "'...Man Will Not Merely Endure: He Will Prevail:' Timelessness in the Works of William Faulker." Thanks for the blast from my lit-major past!!

          Liberal parenting funnies at The Hausfrau Blog

          by jamfan on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 10:59:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  The San Francisco Chronicle has broken some (4.00 / 2)

      great stories on Miers. Yesterday they reported:

      • Miers clerked for the legendary San Francisco plaintiffs'firm run by Mel Belli (the King of Torts), specifically working for class action pioneer Robert Lieff (of the Lieff Cabraser firm).  Lieff still keeps in touch with her.

      • Miers is part of a group of 200 people who broke away from Valley View Church last month.  This could be an incredibly significant insight into her personal views if someone can figure out why this group broke away to start their own church (which is now meeting in motel conference rooms).

      by cityduck on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:21:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've been thinking that (none / 0)

        about the church too.  There has to be something to that.  Church schisms are a really big deal, particularly for people who are very involved in their churches.

        Bill Sali

        by sophiebrown on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:23:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Is she a witch? (4.00 / 3)

          lets put her in water and see if she floats. If she floats she must be a witch.What is it witches are madeof and what floats?

          by Lawdog on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:34:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The Church Tacked Left (4.00 / 2)


          They have apparently moderated their web page to not immediately condemn liberals to hell. That fact has been touted in the blogosphere as evidence that Miers might be a closet moderate, but I suppose that if she's left the church since that happened it is more likely evidence of the opposite.

          Sorry not to provide a link. I think the relevant story was on TNR's blog, actually.

          by Ottoe on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:51:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Bingo! (none / 0)

            The church tacked Left and she left.

            by cityduck on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 09:15:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Article mentioning church split (none / 0)

            Boston.com article that mentions Valley View Church split

            by LivesInAShoe on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 11:10:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I'm going to hell? (none / 0)

            Oh well, at least the 'thugs will have a cool guy to hang out with down there.

            The Pacified Citizen

            by cakestick on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 11:34:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  About the website (none / 0)

            Someone misidentified the church--the deleted political content was from a Valley View Christian Church in Colorado.  I just poked around the site of Miers' church--vvcc.org--via the Wayback Machine, and Valley View seems to be your garden-variety, non-denominational Fundamentalist/Evangelical Church, with little political content on its website.  The most interesting thing I found, however, may be of interest to readers of this thread: a discussion about church governance by the church's ministers from 1997, which included a long discussion of women's roles.  Some highlights:
            Editor:  What's the role of women in the leadership of Valley View?
            Ron: We think women are wonderful.
            Brian: They're great.
            Denny: They're honored and revered and respected and placed on a pedestal.
            (Much nervous laughter throughout the room.)
            Rodney: You can't do without them.
            Ron: If it weren't for women, we wouldn't be here.
            Weldon: Seriously, if we didn't have women serving in the church, there would be a lot of stuff that didn't get done.
            Denny:  There really would be a lot of churches that wouldn't be in existence.

            Ya think?  It goes on like this for a while.  I find the references to nervous laughter very revealing.  These guys knew that they were defending some unpopular notions, and the minutes-taker was making note of it!

            by devadatta on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 01:00:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  1997! This is so retro (none / 0)

              that I'm almost off my chair, laughing . . . and not at all nervously.:-)

              Hmm, wonder if -- as usual -- a woman, say ye olde church secretary (the ones who really run the churches -- I had one in the family, and believe me, the ministers asked her what to do next) was taking the minutes?

              "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

              by Cream City on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 03:59:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I think you're right (none / 0)

                Here's the other reference to nervous laughter:
                Denny:  Our whole system of elders and deacons being the council is more traditional than it is scriptural. Is that fair? There's nothing in the Bible that ever says there was a church council. I guess there was a council that met in the church of Jerusalem.
                Brian:  But it was representatives from all different congregations.
                Ron: And they were all guys.
                Denny:  Definitely all guys.
                (More nervous laughter)
                And my other favorite exchange:
                Ron: I personally believe--and I could get roasted for this--as far as the position of eldership that that's pretty much guys. But as for women serving in the role of deacon and servant, I sure don't see any problem with that.
                Weldon:  I agree.
                Brian:  Me, too.

                by devadatta on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 04:26:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yep, if it was good enough (none / 0)

                  for those guys almost 2000 years ago (or earlier?!), it's good enough for these guys now.

                  That's what happens when they deny evolution.

                  They don't evolve.

                  "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

                  by Cream City on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:00:57 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  ROTFLMAO (none / 0)


              And you're right, TNR had the wrong church--one in Colorado.

              by Ottoe on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 09:07:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Just last month? That is most interesting (none / 0)

        and not the sort of thing that gets dismissed as too far in the past to be considered in hearings now.

        "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

        by Cream City on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:23:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You're right about the church breakaway (none / 0)

        From the scant media reports I've read about this, it is unclear whether they broke away because the church was too strict and conservative or not strict and conservative enough.  I'd also love to know more about this.

        by davidkc on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:31:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't ignore the Belli thing. (none / 0)

          Here's the SF Examiner's take:

          There's always a local angle: Harriet Miers, the Dallas lawyer and White House counsel just nominated to the U.S. Supreme Court, is a woman famously modest of mien, but she once was an habitué of the wildest S.F. scene in one of the wildest years of the town's history. In 1969, the summer of the Zodiac, miniskirts, three-martini lunches, Sgt. Sunshine smoking pot on the steps of City Hall, Woodstock and the Helter Skelter killings, she worked in the raucous law office of Melvin Belli, which was connected to all those phenomena. That's right, as a law student she worked for the summer as a legal researcher down in the plush Belli Building, often described as "bordellolike." Think silk and velveteen furnishings. ...

          Ms. Miers was so talented and skilled that the Belli firm then offered her a job upon graduation from law school. But she declined. The San Francisco scene may have been too out-of-sight for her. Although she never complained of the hijinks and high times that took place between the walls and the sexes at the Belli pleasure dome, it was clear to co-workers that she was just a little uncomfortable with the loosey-goosey Barbary Coast law offices. "She was a terrific, talented worker, and an awfully nice gal," recalls a lawyer who worked with her, "but she was something of a square." Well, it's the squares who make it to the Supreme Court. Consider the new chief justice, John Roberts, who also was once a Puritan in our Bayside Babylon.

          by cityduck on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:37:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The answer to this question will tell us (none / 0)

          more about Harriet Miers than anything else floating around right now.Inspector Clouseau, deputy dog, inspector gadgets, Columbo, Monk, Dudely Do Right, Perry Mason and all of you other sleuths out there We need your help on this one.I mean this but had to say it with levity.

          by Lawdog on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:43:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  talk to the people (none / 0)

          at the church they left.  seems like that would be the best source of info.

          Bill Sali

          by sophiebrown on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 09:11:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  about her church (none / 0)

          I read somewhere that the splinter group wants to put more money into missionary work, or some such, while they see the church as a whole as becoming like a country club.  Maybe that was in the NYT.

          by Brahms on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 09:17:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That doesn't seem to me... (none / 0)

            ....as the stuff of which schisms are made. There must be much more to it.

            Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass. - Barry Goldwater, 1981

            by Doug in SF on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 11:08:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Good call (none / 0)

              See this from yesterday:
              Valley View recently changed its pastor, with Barry McCarty replacing Key.

              "He had a different vision for the church," Hecht said in a telephone interview. "We decided to go a different way."

              Key, the pastor since the 1980s, said he left Valley View over philosophical differences and differences over worship styles and church governance.

              Since then, Miers has "called and encouraged me a couple of times," Key said.

              by devadatta on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 11:18:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Aha! "worship styles" (none / 0)

                often can mean removing even a modicum of the gendered speech in old-style church services.

                Not, in this sort of church, replacing "He" with "She" or the like.  Just saying "men and women" where once prayers said "men" can set this off.

                "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

                by Cream City on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 04:01:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  It does to me.. (none / 0)

              Whether faith alone is enough is a major point of debate.    The *Method*ist Church is a prime example.  Also Missionary Baptist churches.  There have been a number of schisms on this point.

              Many churches come very close to saying faith alone (along with that collection plate cash) is good enough.   It's what allows sinners to keep on sinning and still be saved.  It's what allowed slavery and segregation to flourish in the Bible belt.

              If Harriet is splitting because her church isn't doing enough missionary work, it's not surprising, and good on her.  

              DLC=RNC-30years

              by hardleft on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 12:01:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  One of the papers said (none / 0)

        she left the church because she felt they did not want to spend enough money or time on missionary work. They had cut back severely on missionary work. The new church she has joined, formed by her very conservative pastor, will focus more heavily on missionary work.

        by JamesB3 on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:37:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  so real Christianity vs (none / 0)

          some place to hang out on Sunday morning....

          those damn missionaries should be more responsible for raising their own funds.......

          by HiD on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 10:45:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well (none / 0)

            I think she does give a lot of her salary to missionary efforts, or church expenses. I don't know how much of that went to missionary work though. Maybe that's why she left. It sounds to me like the church moved more towards a more comfortable, cushy middle (all the rhetoric and nothing behind it) and she may want the more hardcore stuff. Or maybe she was just influenced by her pastor.

            by JamesB3 on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 02:55:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  She won't change (4.00 / 6)

        Bush's ridiculously incessant remark about Miers is hilarious.  From everything we are learning about this woman, all she ever does is CHANGE!!  Former Democrat supporting other dems, former Catholic, and now forming her own church.  For crying out loud, she's born again - that sounds like a pretty big change to me.

        Love it, love it, love it.  

        by Monteego on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 08:53:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Change (none / 0)

          From the latest press reports I've seen:

          People who know Miers said her views on social issues such as abortion changed after she was baptized into the evangelical Valley View Christian Church in suburban Dallas in 1980. Her longtime pastor, the Rev. Ron Key, said the nondenominational church stands solidly against abortion.

          "We are pro-life and we feel that God gives life when a child is conceived. We believe that life is a precious holy thing. That is what we preach and that is what we teach," said Key, who had pastured the church 33 years but left three weeks ago following a disagreement over its direction.

          In the tradition of the church, Miers, who was brought up Catholic, was immersed and symbolically born again. Since then, she has been an active member, attending services when in Dallas, tithing "hundreds of thousands of dollars" over the years, teaching Sunday School and serving on a committee that oversaw funding for foreign missions, according to her close friend, Texas Supreme Court Justice Nathan Hecht.

          Lorlee Bartos, who managed Miers' successful campaign for an at-large seat on the Dallas City Council in 1989, said Miers' feelings changed on abortion around the time she joined the church.

          "She told me she had at one time been pro-choice but she no longer was. She had a change of mind," said Bartos, adding that Miers made the comments 16 years ago when Bartos suggested that she meet with a Dallas women's group that supported abortion rights.

          While Hecht, who has dated Miers, said he never pinned her down on the subject of abortion, he believes she supports the church's ideology.

          "Why would you sit there for 25 years?" he said. "I think that her association with the church, which is pro-life, indicates that she is comfortable there."

          by cityduck on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 09:21:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  This (none / 0)

        This story, however, was broken by the Chronicle of Higher Education.

        George W. Bush makes Reagan look smart, Nixon look honest, and his dad look coherent.

        by Dave the pro on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 09:31:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

View Story | 212 comments