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  •  I don't mind the notion of tithing (none / 0)

    ...and what difference does it make if it is inspired by the Bible ?

    even though the majority of Christians have stopped doing this and many appear to believe that the flow of money should go in the opposite direction.
    What I do mind is the constant violation of Church/State separation social conservatives are constantly clamouring for. I understand that what I have to say on the matter is of no consequence to you but Jimmy Carter has written a new book in which he discussing this grotesque violation of a fundamental value of our society. Perhaps you could read his book and reconsider the implications of your stance.  

    by colleen on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 07:54:00 AM PDT

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    •  Jimmy Carter is a Good Example... (none / 0)

      ...of someone who has been positively influenced in public service from Biblical studies.  Carter has openly spoke about how his religious background influenced his decision to run for President.  

      The relatively recent right-wing fundamentalist influence in politics is a grotesque aberration of a long tradition of religious inspired activism on social issues throughout the history of our republic.  With the exception of prohibition, those issues have primarily progressive causes.  Therefore, I'm not inclined to dismiss out of hand an idea just because the proponent said it was inspired by the Bible.

      I look forward to picking up President Carter's book and reading what he has to say on the matter.  Thank you for the recommendation.

      by Grand Poobah on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 08:16:06 AM PDT

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      •  He's a good example of someone (none / 0)

        Jimmy Carter is a Good Example of someone who has been positively influenced in public service from Biblical studies.

        who does not confuse biblical studies and faith with governance and has clear arguments for why the separation of Church and State is an essential value. Like I say, please read his new book.

        The relatively recent right-wing fundamentalist influence in politics is a grotesque aberration of a long tradition of religious inspired activism on social issues throughout the history of our republic.

        Oh it is not. Religious fundamentalists have been opposed to every piece of social equality and progress since the founding of the Republic.
        They opposed ending slavery, they opposed women's suffrage, they opposed access to contraceptives, they opposed the ERA, they opposed ending segregation. I'm not saying that all sects did these things but there's a great deal of historical evidence to support the claim that it was religious institutions who led the charge and provided 'moral' ballast to maintain the status quo on all these issues.

        Oh, and Jimmy Carter is pro-choice and does not wish to see Roe overturned. Jimmy Carter is a man whose basic values I respect, not because he's Christian but because he's a decent and thoughtful human being.

        I'm not dismissing this notion out of hand because it's a biblical notion. (although I'm completely certain the Oil executives are), I'm saying that it's inappropriate for a politician to suggest and that Grassley and the RR repubs are confused about what their roles entail and pointing out that Christians don't tithe anymore, they expect the taxpayer to tithe to them.
         Grassley is abrogating the government's responsibility towards the poor and suggesting  a PR stunt for the oil execs. If they take him up on it they may donate .010% of their profits to, say, Pat Robertson who will then invest a chunk in conflict diamond mines and distribute the rest to organizations who will use it to buy bibles except for the maybe 2 dozen photogenic elderly and/or black families who will appear in ads bragging on the generosity and compassion of multinational corporations. Thus a problem of public perception is solved.

        by colleen on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 09:18:49 AM PDT

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        •  Since the Founding of the Republic.... (none / 0)

          ...religious institutions have also been at the forefront in the abolition movement, the settlement movement, the Civil Rights movement (which would not have existed without churches), the peace movement of the 60s, and the anti-nuclear movements.  Many activists in these movements were clearly influenced by Biblical teachings.  I actually think there is greater evidence that 'it was religious institutions who led the charge and provided 'moral' ballast to challenge the status quo on all these issues.' I suggest you look beyond the role of Southern Baptists and few other sects that you seem to equate with most political activism by Christians.  

          And while Jimmy Carter may be pro-choice, I distinctly remember his words that "everything in life is not fair" when responding to the effects of his signing the Hyde Amendment which cut off government funding to poor for abortions.

          While it is not as common as in past, there are still Christians who do tithe so the thought is not anachronistic and ministers do encourage the practice.  I actually think Grassley raises a good point that corporations, as citizens, should also be encouraged to tithe.   Grassley's encouragement of corporate tithing should not be in place of government fulfilling it's responsibilities. Perhaps others should take the inspiration from Grassley's idea and propose a 10% tax on oil companies' income for purposes of redistribution to poor.  

          by Grand Poobah on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 10:25:12 AM PDT

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          •  asdf (none / 0)

            Since the Founding of the Republic religious institutions

            Some religious institutions. Certainly the Quakers. (And, by the way, I've read extensively on the history of religion and on comparative religion. Don't posture that you are the expert and I'm the ignorant git. It's silly)
            And I note that you completely avoid mentioning their almost universal opposition to anything which granted women something besides second class status or access to any but the most confined cultural roles, a tendency which is escalating in the present day. You know it and so do I.
            I don't see anything productive that can be gained by a discussion with you about religion. I'm a woman and thus you've no respect for anything I might say, any idea or perception I might share with you. I've made my point about hoping you will read Jimmy Carter's new book and that's pretty much the only thing I wanted to express in such unfertile soil.

            by colleen on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 05:07:53 PM PDT

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