Daily Kos

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  •  i never thought dan quayle (none / 1)

    was not going to go down as the biggest idiot ever in the white house.

    wow!  thank god that guy was only VP.

    i have given up trying to understand the idiot.  please don't pop some synapses trying people!

    •  Next to Bush, Quayle (none / 1)

      is a freakin semi genius...LOL

      The one thing we know about the McCain campaign...is that they're very good at negative campaigns, they're not so good at governing- Barack Obama

      by wishingwell on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 04:36:16 PM PDT

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      •  Unwired (4.00 / 5)

        Was Bush missing that mystery device that he wore during the debates?  Sounds like Bush unplugged.
      •  Quayle was Stupid; Bush has Cognitive Problems (none / 0)

        You can't have that many discontinuities in your speech and not have something wrong with your brain.

        I think a psycholinguist should look at Bush's speech to see if there is evidence of some damage to his brain from his years of drinking and snorting coke.

        •  Why look? (none / 0)

          Doesn't this speak for itself?

          An unexamined life is not worth living - Socrates

          by crone on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 06:53:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  DQ made no more factual or logical errors than GWB (none / 0)

          And stupidity is certainly a consequence of "cognitive problems".

          "I think a psycholinguist should look at Bush's speech to see if there is evidence of some damage to his brain from his years of drinking and snorting coke."

          Psycholinguists study the psychological basis of human language.  Anyone who claims to be able to make the sort of determination you refer to is a quack.

          •  My Point Exactly (none / 0)

            "Psycholinguists study the psychological basis of human language."

            So, they might be able to study Bush's linguistic pathology and hypothesize about what has happened to his brain which causes his grotesque linguistic deficiencies.

            •  hypotheses are just opinions (none / 0)

              A hypothesis offered by a psycholinguist is no more valid than a hypothesis offered by you or me.  To be valid, it requires a supporting empirical framework.  That's the difference between science and quackery.
              •  Hypotheses are not Opinions (none / 0)

                That's the sort of rhetoric that lets Creationists claim that Natural Selection is just an opinion.  There is a difference between an hypothesis reached on the basis of evidence and a "mere opinion".  I was wondering whether a psycholinguist--who has studied the empirical evidence about how the brain influences how we speak--would have a hypothesis on what is wrong with Bush.
                •  Natural Selection is not a hypothesis. (none / 0)

                  Natural Selection is an established principle, derived from and overwhelmingly supported by observation.  In fact, despite Darwin having developed his principle from extensive observation, the fact of Natural Selection is tautologous -- once stumbled upon, it can be seen to necessarily occur.  OTOH, the mechanisms of Natural Selection, which were mostly unknown to Darwin, have been discovered by scientists and are part of the theory of evolution -- which is neither hypothesis nor opinion, but rather a coherent explanatory framework with extensive empirical support.

                  > That's the sort of rhetoric that lets Creationists claim that Natural Selection is just an opinion.

                  That's silly and offensive bullshit.  Creationists claim things all the time regardless of what anyone "lets" them do, but any Creationist who claims that Natural Selection is an opinion or hypothesis is full of crap.  Go study some Philosophy of Science, to understand what these terms mean.

                  And your whole approach here is dishonest; you know as well as I do that what Creationists claim is that "evolution is just a theory".  The problem with that claim is that they mistakenly equate the scientific concept of "theory" with the vernacular use, which is equivalent to "hypothesis".  It is precisely because hypotheses are not scientifically established claims that Creationists get leverage out of this semantic confusion.

                  > There is a difference between an hypothesis reached on the basis of evidence and a "mere opinion".

                  As noted in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis
                  "a hypothesis is a provisional idea whose merit is to be evaluated"

                  Both hypotheses and opinions are usually reached on the basis of evidence -- like my opinion that you don't know much about scientific method, derived from the evidence of what you have written.  It is your rhetoric, that confuses hypotheses with principles, laws, and theories, that provides the Creationists fodder.  Hypotheses are guesses -- they are actually even weaker than opinions, because good scientists don't hold a belief as to whether a hypothesis is true or false.  The only rule is that a hypothesis should be consistent with the known facts -- a rule that applies, or should apply, to opinions as well.  Basically, an opinion is a hypothesis that someone believes.  So some psycholinguist might be of the opinion that Bush has brain damage due to fetal alcohol syndrome, based on hsr knowledge of language, psychology, brain function, Bush's behavior, and that Barbara Bush is a lush.  But it's still an opinion, not a scientific conclusion.

                  > I was wondering whether a psycholinguist--who has studied the empirical evidence about how the brain influences how we speak--would have a hypothesis on what is wrong with Bush.

                  And my point was and is that any such hypothesis has no scientific validity, it does not serve as an authoritative claim, it cannot serve as a conclusion -- it's "a provisional idea whose merit is to be evaluated".  Any psycholinguist who testified that s/he had a hypothesis that Bush's speech was caused by drug or alcohol use would be laughed out of court.  An hypothesis is just a supposition as to what might be the case -- it's a starting point for an investigation.  What the psycholinguist would need is convincing empirical support for the hypothesis, and any psycholinguist who claims to have that is a quack.

                  I suggest that you read
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

                  You'll get a lot more out of that than from wasting your time trying to shoot me down or to foolishly and offensively make me out as an enabler of Creationists.  I've spent plenty of time at talk.origins and elsewhere debating Creationists, and I'm quite familiar with their arguments and the flaws in them.

                  •  Hypotheses (none / 1)

                    Hypotheses are not opinions.  An hypothesis is something that can be tested.  However, it is not something that is simply made up.  Hypotheses about the causes of some phenomenon are inferred on the basis of principles arrived at from empirical evidence.  I don't understand why you think that any psycholinguist who arrives at a hypothesis about Bush is a quack.  Are you saying that it is impossible to make an scientifically valid inference about Bush's brain on the basis of the empirical evidence of his speech?  Certainly any such hypothesis would need further testing--testing which will likely never happen--in order to become established, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of making an hypothesis on the basis of the evidence.
            •  It's called the confusion technique... (none / 1)

              ...in conversational hypnosis.  It was pioneered by Milton H. Erickson, a psychiatrist and researcher who developed many hypnotic techniques after studying the way mental patients distorted language.

              This example of Bushspeak  on SS reminds me of the day during the O.J. trial when Johnny Cochran described what DNA evidence was.  He prefaced a very confusing, bewildering lecture by saying to the jury, "Now I'm gonna talk about DNA so you can all go to sleep."

              The Bush goal is for people to say, "Ahh, I don't get the details but they say it's going to make me more money so I am for it."

              The IPCC predicts average global temperatures to rise enough by 2050 to put 20-30% of all species at risk for extinction.

              by Plan9 on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 08:43:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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