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barf.org : a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.
by stormcoming on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 05:39:51 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
If abortion is horrible, then those who have one are horrible as well. Never mind the reasons, a pregnant woman is only a good girl if she brings the child to term.
I personally know two people who had abortions at age 13 and 14, respectively. Their abortions were not horrible. They were the right choice for them. The girls got to grow and learn and became mothers when they were ready. They made their choices in the 70s, before the anti-abortionists had changed the climate. They were not ashamed of what they did, then. Hopefully not now. They shouldn't be.
I've always been cautiously optimistic about the progressive community and their support for women in the work place, in the bedroom, in the world. The last couple of weeks have knocked that out of me. I know believe that the "pro-life" fundies have won the battle and the war. Women are either good incubators who don't make a horrible choice--or they are bad. Fuck!
Edwards Democrat voting for Obama.
by high uintas on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 02:51:20 PM PDT
Please: If men cared about women's rights, they'd take responsibility for birth control, but they always seem to see it as the woman's problem. I get so pissed off when I hear men engaging in "pro-life" rhetoric I really start hating them. I hate the male doctor who told me sterilization went against god's will. I hate the sexual harrassment and anger of men when I don't want to have sex with them - that they have the gall to think sex is their right, when they don't even know me.
by bluebird of happiness on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 03:09:54 PM PDT
The courts would have to have unmitigated gall to force only women to bear the burden of a man's sweet nothings. Equal treatment under the law would necessitate proportionate male sacrifice.
"The survival value of intelligence is that it allows us to extinct a bad idea, before the idea extincts us." -- Karl Popper
by eyeswideopen on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 07:53:40 PM PDT
by digdugboy on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 10:44:56 PM PDT
If men knew they would be required to sacrifice proportionately financially, the attitude regarding abortion would change, and they would see it as protecting not only the life of the woman but also that of the man. The burden must be shared equally.
We need to move to a post-Darwinian era where quality rather than quantity is intentionally chosen.
by eyeswideopen on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 06:36:19 PM PDT
Obesa cantavit
by wystler on Mon Jun 20, 2005 at 09:43:12 PM PDT
by eyeswideopen on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 09:39:15 PM PDT
by wystler on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 10:28:38 PM PDT
But it's going to take a lot of women speaking about their experiences- outting themselves- often at high personal risks, (and don't underestimate those risks) and placing value judgements on those experiences. Back to the T-shirt (as I commented below), "I had an abortion" isn't enough, that merely marks you as a member of class of women. We're going to need to talk about the realities of our experienes, and how no, abortion is not horrible- for many of women it has been damn good.
Further, we're going to have to gage who we're talking to. We're going to need to explain to those who are 'educatable', and stop wasting time trying to please those who aren't. Some people are not going to be persuaded no matter what the words. the only answer for them is get your damn boot off my neck- or uterus as the case may be.
As for everone else, 'friends' need to stop telling us what we've done is varrying versions of bad and how much they wish the 'issue', (and thus we ourselves), would just go away so they can get back to (vainly) trying to win the hearts and minds of those who will not be wooed.
What provoked this diary was yet another attempt at marketing issues that tramples women's realities- the realities of our lives.
I'm tired of having to explain this over and over to 'progressives', 'liberals' 'democrats' and other assorted and assundry 'allies'. Either we have autonomy or we don't.
Either we own our own bodies- or someone else does. And if that 'someone else' does, be it the state, churches, or just plain old abusive boyfriends, what are the consequences to individual women?
Further, if we can be (to use the relgious language referenced above in my diary) 'enslaved' in these ways, what are the implications for others? What kind of society does that create, and what are the implications for those 'progressives', 'liberals' 'democrats' and other assorted and assundry 'allies'?
No, it not some 'war' we choose. A friend in the abortion fiend refers to us as 'relectant warriors'. This came to us, and is being waged on our very bodies.
When abortion, and therefore women who have abortions are labeled horrible by alledged 'friends' they become just another form of attack, on our most basic autonomy- our 'self rule'. Anyone who thinks that's not fair game for criticism should take a good long look in a mirror.
by stormcoming on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 03:14:33 PM PDT
You bleed or you don't bleed.
Or you worry that you haven't bled.
Or you hope/pray that you won't bleed.
Even if you aren't having sex, you are reminded monthly that you are not pregnant.
It is a normal part of our lives.
How often do men think about pregnancy? How regularly do men think of pregnancy?
Pregnancy, birth control, and abortion are not issues that we can have the luxury of waxing philosophic about and making grand pronouncements for the masses.
We do not have the luxury of deciding if abortion can be a "winning strategy" or if the word "abortion" should be considered "horrible" and swept under the carpet.
It's all too real for us.
Thanks, stormcoming, for pointing this out.
IMPEACH
by Maria in Pgh on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 06:10:31 PM PDT
I have always believed that women (and men) who feel this way, should stand up and be bravely direct as you have been with this commentary. It is good for a woman who needs/wants/has to get an abortion that she be supported in HER decision WITHOUT judgement since IT IS HER BODY and not some pod somewhere in lala land that provides the environment in which the zygote/embryo/fetus develops. I have witnessed much relief and sometimes joy on the faces of women of different ages I helped as clinic escort or when providing transportation to and from an abortion clinic. I know women who admitted to being happy that they had an abortion when the time for a child was not right.
No, abortion is not a "horrible" thing. For me, it is lifesaving: my own life, since I decided that if I am in a situation in which I cannot terminate an unwanted pregnancy, I would by any means not continue the pregnancy. Least one thinks that is extreme, remember that the women who today, in many parts of the world, get back-alley abortions KNOW that the procedure, by the very dire conditions in which it is performed, can lead to their own deaths. They knowingly choose a possibility of death over an unwanted pregnancy.
Thank you for an excellent diary.
The time has come for religions made by men for men about men to stay out of women's lives.
by Ayanora on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 06:15:03 PM PDT
For some time now I have secretly hated the whole abortion issue, felt it was an obstacle preventing anything else from being discussed. I thought no one would change their mind about abortion, so what was the point?
That ambivilance was brought into sharp relief recently when my wife had a miscarriage. I no longer felt competent to choose sides at all. Even seven weeks in, that life was important and real. And yet as I learned how common miscarriage is (our doctor told us 1 in 3 pregnancies end that way) I realized how fragile that life is. Especially early on, it represents only a potential.
I believe that my wife's body detected something wrong, that it aborted the process because that was the best thing to do. And when a woman's body does this a third of the time because something only it can detect is not right, the arguments of anti-abortion activists seem ludicrous. Yet in the end I was left unwilling to face the issue at all. It had become too big and too real.
I have doubted my feelings about abortion for a long time. I knew what I was against but, without being able to speak to what I was for, I could only be silent. Thank you for writing today. You have given me new words.
by saodl on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 03:14:36 PM PDT
I had a lot of things to say, please take a moment and read it all
fist-fighter + knife fight = Epic Fail
by nepolon on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 04:24:25 PM PDT
After that - if you've really been listening, and not dismissing them as lunatics on the assumption that such people really can't possibly take over - you'll probably be more visibly insane with anger than the diarist is.
Sleeps With Bastard
by Mike Doughney on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 04:53:10 PM PDT
That doesn't mean I or anyone needs to behave as if we are in need of a rabies shot when we are discussing WHY we support the right to choose as individuals.
Read my diary in full if you haven't. I hate to repeat myself without good reason: both sides here agree on the policy. Screaming at each other about why the other is on the right side of the fence for the wrong reason is really foolish.
by nepolon on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 06:39:44 PM PDT
John Cornyn is an asshole with shoes. Support Rick Noriega!
by anna on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 07:17:13 PM PDT
In other discussions about issues that many feel are wrecking it for the Dems, there's a palpable envy of the right wing model that demands (and gets, voluntarily or through pressure) eventual support. Please -- dump this attitude immediately.
Don't accept the right-wing skewed media cud that the country is "divided" ... which is oh so HORRIBLE. As if the concept of one-party rule in perpetuity is GOOD. Why is the phrase partisan-Democrats as common in Mousy Media as partisan Republicans is rare? When did dissent and diversity become BAD?
Who granted George Fucking Bush and his Royal Republicans the divine right of kings?
It's impractical to think that pesky "single issue" people can be made to step back into the margins and STFU except by top-down force.
That noise is people's many different lives and views that won't fit comfortably into the kind of talking points that get handed out for this week's ginned-up Schiavo circus. That static is the hum of grassroots. You wanted em -- well here we are.
I understand Kos's frustration about wanting to focus on strategies, and have said elsewhere that if the Dems dead-on challenged the GOP on their stances, so much hand-wringing and needless scapegoating wouldn't be necessary.
Equality and justice for all is easier to protect -- and "sell" -- than equality and justice only for the people conservative Republicans like.
Trying to outspin the Rethugs here is a losing proposition unless Dems get a flying monkey army that relishes harassing others.
The attitudes behind anti-abortion extremism is about as "pro-life" as invading Iraq was about spreading freedom, and most people know this already. They only need to be reminded of what they already know.
Conservative Republicans want abortion to be unsafe and illegal. Why? What is their plan to make men equally responsible for unplanned pregnancy? What is their plan for modern, efficient, universal pre-natal healthcare?
Conservative Republicans are against modern birth control and disease prevention. Why? Healthcare costs are already skyrocketing so what is the Republican plan to deal with even more disease? When your kid falls off the abstinence wagon -- and most do -- do you think it's only going to be with someone who doesn't have a sexually transmitted disease?
Senate Republican Leader Bill Frist, a doctor, is against giving women complete, current, scientific medical information about an elective procedure. That's not only immoral but illegal, and it's called being a quack. Bill Frist is against a woman basing her decision on her life, needs, and views. Why?
House Republican Leader Tom DeLay, a religious zealot, is against women making their own moral and religious decisions. Tom DeLay is against a woman using her own religious beliefs in her own life, needs and views. Why?
This is the leadership of today's Republican party.
So professional and amateur party strategists do your strategizing to find the magic phrases, but make forcing the GOP to own their bullshit an everyday part of the discourse.
by Peanut on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 09:34:18 PM PDT
This is the truth.
If women can't protect themselves from having to give birth, we're slaves.
Birth control doesn't always work, under the very best of circumstances -- and every female does NOT have access to needed birth control.
by Persimmon on Mon Jun 13, 2005 at 11:26:48 PM PDT
wide narrow
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