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by amsterdam on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 04:00:46 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
What is really pretty funny is that the ad is really a self-mocking parody of the advertising industries use of sex to sell.
The people shrieking at this ad must think Monty Python is an affront to god..
I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever TJ
by cdreid on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 04:21:16 AM PDT
Well, after this, I should think nothing of falling down stairs.
by Alice Burro on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 07:11:19 AM PDT
First: It is Humor. You can see much much more sexual content by: turning on your television or opening a web browser. Monty python, Benny Hill.. FRIENDS used more sexual humor than this. And a certain group are allll atwitter....
Second: It's also a gay womans fantasy. How does he know! you ask. He knows because his best friend on earth is a gay woman.
Third: There are two definite segments of political women and of gay women who get very upset that women have any sort of sexuality at all. And both groups are much, much, much more sexist than the average bubba.
An explanation. Women, as men, use social controls as a weapon against other women they consider more attractive. Again.. men do it to other men as well but its less pronounced. Wear a lowcut dress and you are both a whore and an affront to womens rights according to this group. Cut your hair off, perm it, wear body hiding clothes and pretend at a distaste for sex, or at least sex with men and you are a heroine for the cause. If you doubt this in the slightest or think it is because of a built in cultural gender belief there have been several studies that examined these phenomena. To make the point clearer lets switch the roles. A man goes into a bar. He has very long flowing hair, wears tight black leather pants that show off his body, a white linen shirt unbuttoned down the front. And moves his hips in a very sexual way (intentionally). He faces open, rabid hostility from every other man in the bar. This isnt a hypothetical. In college i remember this specific study and its' being repeated. The males in the bar were threatened by the open sexuality of the man who was in effect... advertising to the women for sex and very effectively. Now reverse the sex's. A group of people going to dinner. One of the women, who happens to be unusually attractive and well built, wears a very low cut revealing dress. And moves in what can only be described as tempting or erotic. she will face instant open hostility from the other women who view her as a sexual threat.
This is exactly what i believe we are seeing here from one group. It isnt about "womens rights! Abortion! Degrading women!!".. it is about sexual and personal insecurity from a particular group. The group who applies social pressure to make women do the "you're middle age now!" thing. Ie get a perm, wear pants suits, hide your body, be very nonsexual..
The other group i believe are quite simply controlling and sexist in exactly the same way the very worst of male chauvinists are. IE Women must hate sex. Women must be nonsexual. Women must never express a desire to appeal sexually to others (of either sex). Women must attempt to follow the male socialpath. etc etc etc.
Third and finally: Hypocrasy. The rank sort. IE a woman who wears a lowcut top, short skirt, tight jeans is a whore. Whereas a woman who exposes her breast in a restaurant to breast feed is a "hero of the revolution". Its ridiculous, hypocritical and vile. Human beings are human beings. Both women and men are sexual beings. If this commercial had been of two young well built shirtless males doing EXACTLY the same thing the very people attacking it would have been praising it for its "support of women and homosexual males!". It would have been a cause celebre.....
by cdreid on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 07:38:25 AM PDT
by AnneElizabeth on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 08:04:21 AM PDT
Markos gets a big fat fucking ZERO for running the ad and then defending it by equating feminists to the far-right.
"There's nothing new except for the history that you don't know." -Truman...but I am Colin Kalmbacher
by krikkit4 on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 01:02:02 AM PDT
by cdreid on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 02:10:11 AM PDT
But your "if you had a mind" comment above got a 1 from me. And even though I didn't give you a zero, I still think you're a nasty troll. Your condescending and mean-spirited comments up and down this thread belong somewhere else...and not Free Republic...even they would probably ban you...you're better suited for the Protest Warrior Website...you know...the Website whose only mission is to attack the left.
by edkra on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 02:19:06 AM PDT
You are perfectly correct to rate the "if you had a mind" comment with a one or zero. It's definitely trollworthy so feel free and rest assured that even the target supports your decision.
As for mean spirited - I dont see you running around saying that about the people making baseless idiotic attacks on Kos and anyone who doesnt stand up and salute the fringe nuts whos biggest concern is.. a rather bland commercial. Nope.. instead you find yourself deeply angered and annoyed that anyone would DARE speak harshly to people who viciously slander anyone who doesnt jump on their hysterical bandwagon.
Wanna work for womens rights? Work towards toughening discrimination laws, domestic laws, right to chooose laws, child support enforcement, et al. Dont spend all your time shouting hysterically about a breast in an advertisement.
by cdreid on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 03:23:28 AM PDT
by edkra on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 08:04:01 AM PDT
Go ask a single mom living with her parents who has no future because she has to be a mother and cant go to school or get a job or spend time with her friends ... if she's deeply offended by the hideous sexist word hysterical. She'll laugh in your face before she tells you to get out.
by cdreid on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 10:18:32 AM PDT
by debraz on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 06:26:57 PM PDT
I also took a women's studies course, once, and perhaps I was doing it wrong, and I'm sure many will have stories counter to mine claiming they first did battle with the radical feminist gestapo in their women's studies courses, but I found it to be an enlightening course that occasionally delved into the history of women and women's sexuality. Pie fights never came up, per say, but sometimes we discussed the sexual socialization of women, and the many things the women in the class had done that seemed contrary to their nature, and that caused a certain amount of puzzlement and shame later on. Perhaps if women were allowed to embrace their sexuality without fear or shame, we would all get boob jobs, run around in halter tops, and throw merengue at each other, but I honestly don't think that's the direction we would choose to go. I dunno, maybe I'm a prude. And frankly, I don't even know how to spell merengue, let alone the best way to go about lobbing it at another woman. Do you aim for the face or the chest? Does it mean something else when you aim for the chest than when you aim for the face? And what about the vagina? For god's sake, what does it mean when you aim for the vagina?
That being said, I don't find the ad offensive. I don't find it very clever either, though. I'm not sure it should be compared to Python, whose women-objectifying-humor I always found very satisfying and clever, with an element of "do we think that naked women on horseback is funny, or do we think its funny that you think its funny?" Again, maybe I'm totally misreading Python. And misreading women's studies people, who actually DO want to secretly de-ball the world. Who knows.
I do know that some of the comments here would even make O'Reilly blush at their intolerant tone.
Yikes.
by Posture on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 07:58:06 AM PDT
That being said your post made me laugh. Thanks. And personally i think it would probably do us all a bit of good to take a womens studies, and a minority studies ,and a muslim studies course. Every decade or so. We all have our prejudices and blind spots and it can never hurt to have them mirrored so they can be countered..
by cdreid on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 10:32:14 AM PDT
As to the pants suit and perm mafia.. i think you know what im talking about. Its' even begin to filter into entertainment as women begin to say "I'm old not dead. I Like sex. I Like to be sexy. At what age does that become a crime?"
by cdreid on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 10:35:24 AM PDT
Apparently, having two women throw pies at each other, wrestle each other in a sexy, lesbianic manner, then having water splashed on their ample, fake bosoms is degrading to women. Or something like that.
Then I am tempted to say:
Apparently calling all men who enjoy watching two women throw pies at each other, wrestle each other in a sexy, lesbianic manner, then having water splashed on their ample, fake bosoms alphachimps is degrading to men. Or something like that.
(I found the word alphachimp in one fo those posts that I believe you are referring to, above).
When he says that finding this sort of thing objectionable is a "knee-jerk" reaction, I sort of cringe. Because thinking that women smearing pie filling on each other's breasts kind of sets back the attempt by women (who don't like to smear pie filling on each other's breasts) to be taken seriously as adult rational persons is not exactly "knee-jerk". I could use the words knee and jerk in a far more appropriate context than that. So then I think, "has Kos just pulled a Limbaugh (I just made that up!) and pushed aside a legitimate gripe that affects a significant portion of the population (whether they know it or not) because it interferes with his moral ability to make money and enjoy a little boob-smearing on the side? A case could be made.
By the way, I do think it is degrading to call men alphachimps. No joke! Kneeing jerks in the nads is wrong too!
Kos is a big-boy, and he has his very own blog. Honest criticism towards his words should be expected. Calling him an alphachimp should not, so okay - I object!
And finally, you haven't sufficiently explained: just what is wrong with women who wear pantsuits? And how can we get the word pantsuit back into every day vocabulary usage?
by Posture on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 01:14:33 PM PDT
It is with the other women insisting they do it. The OTHER women wanting to control their bodies, their sexuality, their sensuality. It's one of the never talked about forms of sexism.
As for criticising the ad or Kos for his post. Go for it. But dont expect everybody to shut up and not argue with you. And thats the thing. They arent just upset about the ad or Kos's post. They are most upset that DK isnt censored to fit their particular outlook. And that belongs in freeperville.. or maybe soviet russia. Not on DK.
by cdreid on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 05:03:16 AM PDT
That is the dumbest thing I've read in a long time. Just who do you think you are talking about?
by bizarrojack on Wed Jun 15, 2005 at 12:34:06 AM PDT
by amsterdam on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 09:30:43 PM PDT
by Raya on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 01:16:21 PM PDT
wide narrow
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