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View Diary: [UPDATED] Just Admit You Fucked Up (252 comments)

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  •  Don't apologize for it (3.93)
    I thought the reasons for war were bullshit from the beginning, and I've given politicians my share of hell for viting for the resolution, but at this point, no apologies for the vote. Say you voted the way you did because the Bush administration lied about the threat, and that had they been honest, you'd have never voted for it. This puts the blame for the war squarely where it belongs, and allows the politician to defend against attacks on their willingness to use force when it's necessary.

    Nature abhors a vacuum, and the Bush administration abhors a truce.... many people think that vacuums and the Bush administration both suck. Kagro X

    by incertus on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 09:39:56 AM PDT

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    •  Shift responsibility (4.00)
      I was led to believe, as many of you were, by the flawed and misrpresented intelligence that was presented to congress and the world. I wish to appologize for the damage caused by my, and my countries, failure to accuratly determine the facts. I am calling for an investigation into rather the intelligence was intentionally scewed to misrepresent the threat to this country in order to remove invade Iraq for personal reasons on the part of the President, financial reasons on the part of many war supporters, and truly megalomoniacal reasons of the mempers and backers of the PNAC group.

      Now that's the speach I want to hear.

      "It's about the accountability, stupid." Thomas Davis 2005.

      by Tomtech on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 10:25:49 AM PDT

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    •  The Blame Where it Belongs (4.00)
      I'm sorry, but that is B.S.. Members of Congress who voted for the war share in the blame. Period. A drunk dog could see at the time that the case for war was flimsy and hyped. As elected officials, members of Congress have a responsibility not to just believe whatever line of garbage is coming out of the White House. They have a responsibility to find out the truth and to vote accordingly. The Dems who voted for the war acted wrongly and should apologize, not just for reasons of political expediency, but because they owe us an apology. They could have deprived Bush of the veneer of legitimacy he needed for his crimes and they chose not to. And the costs of their abdication of responsibility have been enormous.

      "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral

      by Christopher Day on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 01:44:47 PM PDT

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      •  No. (4.00)
        Listen. The approach you take here would be extremely counter-productive. Honestly, what do you accomplish by pulling the rug out from under the Democrats, removing the assumption that they were deceived like the rest of us? That notion has been accepted for a while now, and all your strategy would do is undermine the one thing they have to stand on - their one way to relate to the average person who was similarly lied to. All this would do is make them look just as malicious as the administration, except then they would be complete pansies in the eyes of the public for apologizing and then pandering for votes. What do they have going for them then? Anyway, I don't even think your assessment is accurate. We know that most people supported the war because they were genuinely convinced of its necessity. The Democrats were cowed into voting for it for fear of a political backlash from these people... and they were presented with the same false evidence.

        We know they should apologize for making a mistake but NOT for knowing better.

        •  All of the rest of us were not deceived n/t (none)
          •  Well that's fantastic (none)
            but what exactly are you getting at?

            You had your suspicions and your gut feeling was right, after the dust settled. We're looking back on the situation two years later, however. The overwhelming proof that this war was launched on a lie has only come out now. Whatever you 'knew' about the war before it started, while most people were fooled, you didn't really know until documents were proved forgeries, the DSM broke, etc.

            If you were a senator facing tremendous public support for action, and evidence that the Executive presented as proof of a threat, and the intelligence community is backing it up... let's face it, voting against the war would be very difficult. We now know it would have been the right thing to do, but my point was that the Democrats did not in 2003.

            Of course, now there's no reason to ever trust the White House again. That's sooo pre-9/11 mindset.

            •  No offense, but... (none)
              ...most people I know think the Dems who voted for it and haven't opened their mouths since are a bunch of, well, hacks.  They're no better than the Republicans.  People want our leaders to own up, to face facts and come clean.  And I am sick to death of arguing for Dems and against the Iraq War and having some conservative pull the "but they voted for it" line out of their back pocket.  No matter how many ways I explain it (Bush lied, they gave him the authority and didn't expect him to use it, they were misled, etc.), the absolute is there.  They VOTED for it.

              That said, i think the biggest problem or hindrance lies in the real reason many of the Dems voted for war.  And that is the final apology listed in the diary above:

              I now believe my vote on the Iraq War resolution was wrong. I feared the President's high approval ratings and looking weak on terrorism in the wake of 9-11. I regret voting for this disastrous war that has cost our country dearly.

              I can't imagine any single one of them having the guts, the fortitude, the balls to truthfully apologize.  Of course, therein lies the problem with our government.  Honesty is dead.

              •  You misunderstand me, I believe... (none)
                I am all for apologizing for their mistake. They can apologize for making the mistake that the majority of Americans made in buying the war wholeheartedly.

                We don't know the individual motivations of every senator, however. I am with you in believing that it was all because it was the 'popular' thing to do for all of them - selfish political positioning. And I agree completely that in a sane world, they should apologize for that.

                But in a world where we repeatedly get our asses kicked for, among other things, appearing weak, waffly, and unprincipled, being the ONE party to admit to voting/positioning based on public image would be suicide. I can't stress enough how this would be the RIGHT thing... but you know that once the Dems apologize for that, all hell breaks loose. All the labels that the GOP have been pounding into peoples' heads are confirmed. We are weak, and the Republicans are principled, etc. The focus is off the real criminals and is instead centered on the people on the right side of the issues, but had political concerns.

                My point is that it is entirely plausible that the senators were honestly mislead. Why? Well, even IF their motivations were PURELY political (say, a Presidential run), they would have been deceived no matter what. They were given cooked intelligence. That's not their fault. They should not spill their guts all over the floor in apoligies when they were ultimately the victims of the lies, just as we were.

                We know and they know that they did what was best for themselves, but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot. They are our party, let's deal with it. Apologize for making a mistake, and move on to the real culprits.

        •  Perhaps (none)
          they are as malicious as this administration.  I don't really know.  But what if they did apologize?  I think it would begin to unite the party.

          But...from where I sit, I have their number.  They knew and they knew it from the start.  At minimum, they are accessories to the crime.

          Sure, let's follow the strategy of having them not apologize, then let's, one by one, vote them out of office and replace them with our own candidates.

      •  You're right (4.00)
        And I agree with you in the abstract. But votes are counted (when they're counted at all) in the concrete world, and in the concrete world, the scenario you describe doesn't win elections in most districts. As I said--I've given members of Congress my share of grief over their votes, and any of them who want higher office and who voted for this war will never get my support outside an election-day vote against a Republican.

        But while members of Congress should have done more to at least inform the country of the boondoggle we were heading into, the primary responsibility for the death in Iraq still lies in the hands of the orchestrators of the action, the Bush administration. And from those members of Congress, I will accept an "I was lied to and I won't screw it up again."

        Nature abhors a vacuum, and the Bush administration abhors a truce.... many people think that vacuums and the Bush administration both suck. Kagro X

        by incertus on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 02:42:26 PM PDT

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