Daily Kos

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  •  Much Bigger? (none / 1)

    There is no issue "much, much bigger" than abortion rights.  It's about basic respect for women, state/church separation, and our freedoms as Americans.

    Take Back the Democratic Party http://www.lawlessforcongress.com/

    by fedupnyc on Tue Aug 09, 2005 at 04:39:53 PM PDT

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    •  sure there is... (none / 1)

      Following the constitution and the rule of law.  This administration has bent and broken so many laws it is crazy.

      If your elected leaders become despots and the military backs them then nobody's rights matter much male or female.

      We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

      by delver rootnose on Tue Aug 09, 2005 at 05:15:51 PM PDT

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      •  You Don't Get It (none / 1)

        Anyone who tries to undermine Roe v. Wade is violating the constitution and attacking the rule of law.

        Take Back the Democratic Party http://www.lawlessforcongress.com/

        by fedupnyc on Tue Aug 09, 2005 at 07:06:05 PM PDT

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        •  Sorry I get it and I think you are wrong. (4.00 / 2)

          Roe V wade is just a court ruling.  Granted all court rulings are based on the rule of law and the constitution but the republican party by ignoring well established laws are undermining the constitution.  In Roe V Wade they are just trying to change the court to one who will rule differently.

          The assualt on the constitution is much more important than any one ruling.

          By the way I generaly support roe v wade while I personally dislike abortion.

          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

          by delver rootnose on Tue Aug 09, 2005 at 08:15:08 PM PDT

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          •  It's an ugly issue to hang our hat on (none / 0)

            I fully support a women's right to choose and would not force my wife, my daughter, or, in the past, my girlfriend to have an unwanted child. But I must admit that I am uncomfortable with abortion.

            I beleive that the Democratic Party is the true "culture of life" party. While the Right seems to be only interested in "pre-life", and "pre-post-life", we strive to improve the "real-life", that what's in between birth and death. Like not rushing to war, lending our country's strength to oppressed peoples, protecting human rights, opposing capital punishment...ect...ect...ect. These are the issues we should really be tagged with.

          •  You Don't Get It At All (none / 0)

            Roe v Wade is about the very humanity of women.  Roe v Wade is about whether our courts will uphold and defend the constitution and the rule of law or if they will deliberately violate both in order to pander to militant fundamentalists.

            The right to choose on abortion is as basic as the rights to freedom of speech, press, and assembly.  Just because women are the only people who get pregnant doesn't make it less so.

            Anyone who who try to overturn Roe v Wade has utter contempt for everything America stands for.  It truly is the mentality of the Taliban.  Saying "Roe V wade is just a court ruling" is like saying "The Constitution is just a piece of paper."

            Take Back the Democratic Party http://www.lawlessforcongress.com/

            by fedupnyc on Wed Aug 10, 2005 at 08:02:43 PM PDT

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            •  it's hard to argue with a zealot.... (none / 0)

              so I won't

              We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

              by delver rootnose on Wed Aug 10, 2005 at 08:41:22 PM PDT

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              •  It may be hard to argue with a zealot... (none / 0)

                But it's even harder to argue with an apologist.  The issue of choice boils down to the fundamental issues of a woman's right to have agency over her own bodily autonomy.  Basic. Civil. Rights.

                There is a reason that the rest of the world so disparages the United States for it's lack of ratification for CEDAW, as well as the stances it took in the 2002 UN conference where we tried to push a fundamentalist agenda with regards to sexuality in general, as well as women's reproductive rights.

                And KOS, it's very hard to take you very seriously when you run around calling this issue a 'pet cause', versus a very real threat to 50% of the voting population that also happens to be a majority within the party you proclaim to support.

                NARAL could have chosen a better option than Chaffe, sure, but that option would not have been an anti-choice Democrat, no matter how many times you want to rehash the issue.  The better course of action would have been to support a green party member if there was one, but the point was made none the less.  This isn't a 'pet cause', it's a very real issue that is not a political bargaining tool for the unaffected left.

                "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - MLK, Jr.

                by FemiMama on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 07:19:31 PM PDT

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                •  Let's try it this way. (none / 0)

                  FemiMama, please look at your signature.  I'll repost it here just for clarity:

                  "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

                  Do you really believe that?  I very much hope you do, because it is critical to the point Kos is trying to make - not that abortion needs to be set aside as an issue, but that it is not the only issue.

                  The issue of abortion is critical, yes.  However you're missing the point Kos is trying to make.  The Right is not fighting with some people over here fighting for Roberts, and some people over there fighting for prayer in public schools, and some people way over there fighting for more "tax reform."   To slightly overgeneralize, they are fighting for everything, all at once, all the time.

                  To restate it:  There are no unimportant fights to the Religious Right.

                  Every fight that progressives lose, makes the efforts of all of us that much less effective.  Every fight where different interest groups go "that's not my fight," or "my fight is more important," we ALL lose.  Every fight that they win, makes it that much easier, establishes that much more of a precedent for their next win.

                  This is what we as a group are not understanding. That there are no unimportant fights, and that there are no "most important" causes.  To continue to hammer those who disagree with you with rhetoric is to make enemies within your own house, and alienate your own cause by revealing a lack of empathy for the issues that others hold dear.

                  Other people have other priorities, and some even choose to share them.  I would submit, however, that people who treat their causes as somehow greater than all others are doing a great disservice to everyone.  Women's reproductive rights will be fought for, make no mistake.  It's part of the ideal of progressivism (and I realize not all of y'all are progressives, but this is the viewpoint from which I can speak knowledgeably), and therefore it must be included, or we are no longer what we think we are.

                  The mental exercise of denigrating the ideals of those who do not agree with us is one which we, no matter what our focus, have much experience at being on the receiving end of.  The fact that we are handing this treatment out to others that are our philosophical kin is unsupportably wrong, and gives great comfort to those who find our ideals repugnant.  This is not about abortion, this is not about overtime, this is not about child care, this is not about the right to organize, this is not about Social Security, this is not about freedom from religious interference in Government, and vice versa.  This is about all of those things, at once.

                  Find a group that you agree with, and that is NOT a supporter of one of your pet causes.  Learn about them and their arguments, and lend them a little support.  Think about it, and discover how support for this cause supports your own, and be surprised and gratified at the results. Businesses call it cross-training.  I call it unified action.  I also call it our only chance to kick these bastards in the teeth.

                  "Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid." --Basil King

                  StealthBadger.net

                  by Stealthbadger on Sat Aug 13, 2005 at 12:55:02 PM PDT

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