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  •  Gee Whiz Clyde (none / 0)

    If you don't like Howard Dean don't take it out on me. I'm just a guy living in a broken down old farmhouse in Morrisville, VT who picked up a camera before Dean left office in Vermont and asked him if he would participate in the documentary. He thought the project was "really neat." Three years and two babies later I found that this was something important for the people since it is about the people but simply couldn't afford to do it alone anymore. No, I have not been paid a dime but have often been in tears for having to leave my new babies and wife for extensive periods of time because I felt that this film was developing into an important piece of history based on what the people were saying to me. Since it became a full time job for a while we really had to start begging for help. No one knew how long Dean's ride would last. In fact, he's still riding and a lot of people think that's important. That's why I'm asking the people to lend a helping hand. It's a community project. It's stone soup. Do you know how humiliating and hard it is to beg for money even though the cause is pure, honest, decent and debt ridden. Do you know what it is like to have $70,000 in credit card debt because you felt that there was something bigger than yourself, an idea that had to be pursued despite a worry about the money that it will take to disseminate that idea for the greater good?

    What's really tacky is claiming you went to the site where real people do believe in this project and are investing in a community project; donating their own video, audio, ideas and offering free ads, and links, and not finding the answers to the questions you are so paranoid about.

    Go back to the site, read all the information, and come back with some more ideas because you started out great. Those are some good ideas, Clyde, and if you had the same community spirit like the hundreds of people I talked to on camera who were part of the Dean movement you might be a little more productive with your time and try to be a part of the solution instead of the problem.

    When you've watched the free movies again at thegrassrootsmovie.com and realize you are seeing something that's never been attempted before you might actually relax and enjoy the show. Some people actually get up from their computer screens and participate in their democracy. Those people are more important than any little squabble you have with me about injecting my little people-powered movie project into a Dean post about Roberts.

    I have learned my lesson though Clyde that there are cops in the blogosphere and I guess I've been on the road too long to know what the protocol is. I certainly know what a rating system is now and I thank you for your education on that. It's kind of like a little sport isn't it? I hope you'll donate $50 bucks after you have really looked at the site for your answers. Your investment will get your name in the credits of the final cut and you can share your free DVD with all your friends. Don't hesitate though because the more we can show a potential distributor how really united we are behind this, the more we can show the world why ALL Democrats are united in taking back our country from the Republicans. Thanks again for your ideas!

    Directing the people-powered film: "Dean and Me"

    by deantv on Fri Sep 16, 2005 at 07:02:24 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I like Dean just fine (none / 0)

      and did a nontrivial amount of volunteer work on his campaign (though nowhere near as much as some other people did).  I originally got to DKos through Blog for America.  That doesn't mean that if I start peddling Dean T-shirts through a web site, it's noncommercial or a community project.  And yes, I do put tons of energy into community projects and sometimes ask for use of community resources (such as donations) to do them.  That's why it bugs me when I see people asking for those same resources to do commercial projects under the pretense that they're community projects, which I've seen happen many, many times and have grown sensitive to.  

      I'm not saying you're definitely doing that, but am asking for clarification about exactly what you're doing, and your answers have been vague and possibly evasive.  Also, I did read your site in search of answers and didn't find them (I can't look at the videos because they require closed source plug-ins that I refuse to run).  So I'll repeat the questions in the hopes of getting clear, unambiguous, yes-or-no answers, not sob stories about your credit card bills:

      1. Are the producers getting salaries?  --> OK, you're self funded from credit cards, I guess this is answered.  Of course that doesn't make you noncommercial; it's a classic entrepreneurial approach.  And even high salaries don't make you commercial: the CEO of the Red Cross gets over $400K a year.  But knowing this info helps fill in the picture.

      2. If the movie brings more revenue than its production costs, where will the surplus go? --> You ignored this question but I think it's the litmus test for distinguishing a noncommercial project from a commercial one.

      3. Will viewers be able to download the film for free and also share copies online?  --> All I see on the site is "copyright so-and-so, all rights reserved" in several places.  If it's a community project, why are the rights reserved to the producers instead of to the community?  What exactly do you mean by saying I can share the DVD with my friends?  If I can put it online like the Kerry movie was online, that starts being meaningful.  If you just mean I can invite friends over to watch it, that's already true even of Hollywood DVD's.

      If you want to see a REAL noncommercial, community project, take a look at Wikipedia (though it's an encyclopedia rather than a movie), which I've been donating both volunteer effort and cash to.  There is no unclarity about any of those questions for Wikipedia:

      1. It does have one paid staff person but his salary is very low.  

      2. Revenue comes from fundraising drives (about $250K for the last one) and goes into project expenses, mostly computer hardware.  Exact accounting of the donations is published on the Wikimedia Foundation's web site.  The organization itself is set up as a 501(c)3 nonprofit and so donations are tax deductable.  That puts constraints on how the cash can be spent.  (Those constraints probably make 501c3 organization a bad idea for political activism but other types of NPO might work).

      3. All Wikipedia content is free to redistribute under a community license (the GFDL, same as DKosopedia's, originally intended for computer documentation).  The comparable community license for a movie would be one of the Creative Commons licenses (www.creativecommons.org), specifically CC-BY-SA, although using any of the CC licenses would count as a definite yes anwer to whether the video can be shared.

      The last part, to me, spells out what a real community project is.  Take a look at Our Media to see how some other projects along the lines of your film are being done.  

      Anyway, if you're truly doing a community project according to that last definition, and are willing to update your web site to say so, I'll be happy to make a small cash donation and to offer some video I've shot at a few Dean and other events (though you surely have tons of better video already, so I can't promise my stuff will be of much interest).

      Right now though, I'd have to say at the very minimum, that it doesn't look like you've thought these issues through very clearly.  

      Hawkish on impeachment.

      by clyde on Fri Sep 16, 2005 at 03:43:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Does that mean you do not want to hear about ... (none / 0)

        ...selling my car for the movie? Just kidding. Clyde, beyond your initial attack and subsequent insults you make some great points and I'm happy to answer your questions. I have absolutely no intention of being evasive and in fact am trying to lay it all out on the table so let me address your questions. And thanks for allowing me to clear this up; it was so hectic just trying to get the website made that I just decided to deal with issues as they arose based on the feedback I get from the launch of the site.

        On the contribute page at the site it says: "Grassroots filmmaking requires funds as well as heart. We ask you to contribute what you can to help us finish and distribute Grassroots: The Movie. For a gift of $30 you will receive a free advance copy of the DVD. For a gift of $50 or more your name will also appear in the film's end credits.

        Your gift will make possible a final cut of the film that is distribution ready. Also, any profits from distribution will in turn make possible our next film on grassroots participation in American democratic self-government. This is a continuing story, we trust."

        So yea, even though I'm told again and again that I can't expect to get more than $50,000 as a first time feature filmmaker, I do hope I can get that to make the next film on grassroots politics. Of course, I hope I am still married after all this too (that's a joke Clyde, stop rolling your eyes). So technically speaking I am not a big commercial entity but you are correct, I am commercial since I want to recoup my cost and produce, distribute and shop around a film that I think will be beneficial on a large scale for our community. So if it's all right with you I still consider it a community project since it is told by, and is about the community. It costs money to get those dvds and names in the credits so I consider that a return on an investment for the small donations.

        1. Are the producers getting salaries?

        No. In three years money has gone out and I have paid for my co-producers flights etc to keep her happy though she works as a professor of film at the New School in NYC and Purchase. In fact, our original budget is $175,000 that includes salaries for time actually making it estimated, but I cut that out and other things because I didn't think I could justify certain costs yet with the community. The $108,130 budget is what I thought was the bare minimum we needed to beg for to simply keep the film alive and get it into production. I had the budgets up initially at the site but took it down because it just was not necessary and took away from the concentration of the video I thought. I'm not against putting them back up.

        2. If the movie brings more revenue than its production costs, where will the surplus go?

        Again, as it says on the donation page:

        "Also, any profits from distribution will in turn make possible our next film on grassroots participation in American democratic self-government."

        3. Will viewers be able to download the film for free and also share copies online?

        I'm so far away from that stage I do not know how to answer the question. Do you have resources you can share that would give me an idea how I could do that and still get a return to get out of debt?

        One idea I have been kicking around is to offer shares for the level of commitment to the film. I'd really like to see this kept in the family because a big movie house would make demands on the direction of the film. That could disastrous for this type of content. Anyhow, if one sends in $100 for example they get .00000001 or something from a percentage pool of any profits (if there ever is a movie). If you know about these things please share. What do you think of the idea?

        Clyde, since you have not seen the video. Let me briefly share what it is that is free on my site:

        1. the first clip is about annatopia.com and me (citizen journalists video blogging for Dean Nation at the time) canvassing for Dean in Iowa and talking about that lost sense of community.

        2. Citizen journalist going after Sean Hannity, Carville, Tucker, etc etc... in the hopes that in a finished film younger generations will see that cheap technology can even the playing field with the MSM if one has the courage to go after them to get unscripted moments. In the film, you will see me get on the CNN bus and confront Bob Novak for instance.

        3. This road trip of a film includes regular characters like Darius Mitchell who became my friend on the trail of democracy during the campaign. He's a big black guy from Lowell, Mass. who is concerned about the way MSM depicts African Americans. He says the media is segregated. He wants to change that. I want to help get his message out within my message in the finished movie.

        4. The MSM kept reporting these peaceful protests in NYC at the RNC as violent, unruly hippie people. You and I know that was not the case. The video shows an undercover cop revving up and gunning down a woman on purpose. My video actually shows the cop doing this (when blown up and in better light you can actually see the cop smiling before he did it). That night and the next morning MSM all over reports that a policeman was attacked by angry mobs. If I was into conspiracy theories, this is the video that would make me believe in them because I think this attack by the cop was coordinated somehow.

        Anyhow, I'll probably end up in court over that one since there are so many lawsuits over that incident. That's free at my site too.

        5. The last video just shows how nuts things get during these times following presidential candidates. Larouche supporters rioting at Dean speeches. Al Franken "wrestling" protestors into submission (he used the video on a talk show--for free. I just hope he'll speak with me again for the final cut of a film).

        I hope you will see the video and consider what's at stake here.

        So, if you have some ideas on all this please write. Perhaps I'll post part of our discussion to see if others want to chime in. I'm open to all ideas but think I've been up front about what's going on.

        Again, I didn't mean to hijack anything either. Do you think it would be okay to post my ad in open threads? I really don't know the answer to these questions. I am really still learning about how these things works so thanks again for opening up the discussion..

        And what does a 17 rating mean?

        My shoulder is killing me I have to stop writing for now.

        Directing the people-powered film: "Dean and Me"

        by deantv on Sat Sep 17, 2005 at 01:10:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  reply (none / 0)

          1. A lot of your post is about how good the finished movie is going to be.  That's all very nice but it doesn't have anything to do with the business model so I won't address it.  If you want me to watch the videos you're going to have to post them in open formats.  I'm not willing to pollute my computer with closed-source plugins just to watch a few video clips.

          2. I notice that "Outfoxed" was funded by CAP, MoveOn, and some other political types (link).  It sounds like you talked with similar sources and they were interested in funding you at $50K but not more.  Maybe there was a reason for that, and you're spending too much despite your opinion to the contrary.  (Everyone who spends too much on something usually doesn't realize they're doing so).

          3. Take a look at http://www.creativecommons.org or http://www.craphound.com or other such sites for info on how people are doing ok releasing stuff for gratis download.  There was also the Kerry movie "Going Upriver" that I mentioned.   If you want to go this route, and I hope you do, be very careful about licensing 3rd party content, for example all the songs in Fahrenheit 911.  Michael Moore said he personally didn't object to people downloading the movie.  However (my reading, not something he said) is that the presence of all those licensed songs stopped him from granting official permission for downloading.  All he could do was look the other way when it happened, which meant there was less downloading than there could have been, and the film's impact was diminished.  So if you use external music or whatever, make sure to choose sources that won't obstruct free downloads.  Again, see Creative Commons, http://www.magnatune.com and so forth.  (Also here).

          4. While your film is no doubt worthwhile, don't overestimate its impact ("what is at stake here").  F911 was one of the top 20 grossing films of 2004 (something like $240 million in revenue so far) but now that the brouhaha has settled down, it's just another movie.  Be very happy if you have 1/1000th as much influence as F911 had.

          5. Your notion of offering .00000001 of the film per $100 of backing is ridiculous--it means that putting up the whole $100K would get only .000001.  That's just laughable, backers are going to want at least 50% and probably more like 90%.  Put another way you're saying you think the film is worth somewhere north of $5 billion.  Don't kid yourself.  Making it 1/2000 (.0005) per $100 starts to make sense, but of course then it's just another business venture.  I can't advise you about that though.  There's nothing wrong with it, it's just something I have zero knowledge about or interest in.

          6. I believe it's highly inappropriate to run ads for anything in comment threads, whether open threads or anything else (an exception might be, say, a thread specifically about activist movie projects).  If you want to run an ad, recognize that an ad is an ad, and run it as an ad.  See that guy in the DKos front page ad section talking about Bob Dylan?  He ran an ad for his mp3 download, and you can do the same.  He's not even trying to sell anything or ask for donations.  You've mentioned getting some complimentary ads and that's fine too, but if those aren't available, then pay for your ads.  Blog sites have expenses just like you do.

          7. That said, I think most DKos readers wouldn't mind if you once in a while (I mean no more than once every couple months) posted a diary about progress with the film.  Ideally any such diary should be timely (i.e. describe what you've actually been doing on the film recently) and even newsworthy ("yesterday we just filmed a really good interview with so-and-so").  It should be at least a couple screens long, can include some photos and links to new video, etc.  It should not be an ad!  There can be a brief fundraising appeal included towards the end but the main substance of each diary should be to inform people about what's going on (and therefore shouldn't be the same diary over and over).  That will go over a lot better than trying to turn DKos into a telethon.

          Hope this helps.

          Hawkish on impeachment.

          by clyde on Sat Sep 17, 2005 at 06:16:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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