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  •  Paul Wellstone, of all people, (none / 0)

    maintained an active and fruitful personal and professional friendship with Jesse Helms while they were both in the Senate.  They disagreed about a great many things, but that did not stop them from working together on important international human rights legislation and advocacy.

    That is what democratic politics is: getting along with people who disagree with you about some of life's most important issues.  Democrats, of all people, should be examples of this.

    by eastsidedemocrat on Mon Sep 19, 2005 at 07:31:49 PM PDT

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    •  I disagree (4.00 / 3)


      As far as I am concerned all anti-choice democrats can leave the party.  I am not voting for or supporting anti-choice candidates ever, not even once.

      Unseen Gore Video

      by TeresaInPa on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 03:40:22 AM PDT

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      •  If you do that (none / 0)

        and there are not too many people who follow your example, you will be successful in keeping abortion rights a high priority in the Democratic Party.  

        But if too many people follow your example, you will keep the Democratic Party from winning power and thereby lead to the further erosion of the very rights you seek. (As is occurring now.) Politics in a democracy is a balancing act of coalitions, and there is not much place for zealotry if you want to be successful at it.

        by eastsidedemocrat on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 07:26:52 AM PDT

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        •  Why would you believe this? (4.00 / 2)

          Every poll I've seen indicates that the majority of Americans support reproductive rights, including a right to abort a pregnancy.

          TRAP law supporters
          Why modern-day conservatism makes no sense to me

          by media girl on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 08:46:06 AM PDT

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          •  Those polls don't gage prioritization (none / 0)

            For most people who respond in ways that identify them as pro-choice, it is not as important an issue for them as it is for you.  

            For example, a large number of successful career women who are also pro-choice, consistently vote Republican due to a belief that Republicans will protect their economic interests better.  Keeping taxes low is more important to them than abortion rights, even though they are pro-choice.  

            Likewise, a large amount of the labor and rural base of traditional Democratic voters prioritize pro-life causes above their own economic interests. That is why there exists a swap set of pro-life Democrats that can be gained by moderating the pro-choice rhetoric of the party.  Majority numbers on issue polls don't win elections.  If they did, Republicans would not be in power now.  Effective, but often temporary, coalitions of people with some common interests, but many contrary ones, are what win elections.

            by eastsidedemocrat on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 11:24:07 AM PDT

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            •  shit (none / 0)

              I wish I was as smart as you. No snark intended.

              Write Al Gore a letter asking him to run: The Honorable Al Gore 2100 West End Avenue Suite 620 Nashville, TN 37203

              by MonkeyDog102 on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 04:15:57 PM PDT

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            •  Go ahead with rationalizing (none / 0)

              Because the simple fact is that there's no indication that it's not an important issue for them, either.

              Or that civil rights are.

              Or that gay rights are.

              Or that the war is.

              Or that the economy is.

              Or fill in the blank.

              But you go on rationalizing your finger-waggling at the electorate for not buying the "If we take a stance, someone won't like us" theory of politics.

              Who's against the big tent? Every single would-be pundit who kicks people in the teeth for feeling passionate about their rights.

              TRAP law supporters
              Why modern-day conservatism makes no sense to me

              by media girl on Wed Sep 21, 2005 at 08:00:33 AM PDT

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              •  Yes there is an indication. (none / 0)

                The indicator is this:  Republicans control the country, and they run unabashedly pro-life as far as abortion is concerned, even though polls consistently say that the majority of the country supports Roe.  The Democrats have run unabashedly pro-choice since the 1980's, but they have been losing more than winning.  The only possible explanation is that support for Roe is less important than other things for key constituencies.  

                Facts sometimes hurt, but the effective political actor will find ways to obtain her objectives after taking those facts as a given. That's what Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer are doing.  The ineffective one simply resorts to believing his own propaganda, truth be damned.  Which one one are you?

                by eastsidedemocrat on Wed Sep 21, 2005 at 01:07:15 PM PDT

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                •  Flawed logic (none / 0)

                  The Democrats have run unabashedly pro-choice since the 1980's, but they have been losing more than winning.  The only possible explanation is that support for Roe is less important than other things for key constituencies.

                  A big mistake a lot of people make is that correlation means causation. And here there's not even correlation.

                  1. It's a modern urban legend that "Democrats have run unabashedly pro-choice since the 1980's." In actual fact, many Democrats are anti-choice, and run as such, and most others just try to avoid the issue altogether, which is not unabashed support, it's weasly support.

                  2. Democrats have been going along with much anti-choice legislation, including TRAP laws.

                  3. The losses of Democrats have been since the DLC led the party away from its core constituencies. And they seem to be doing that more and more.

                  The picture you paint is pure fantasy. "The only possible explanation"? I don't think so!

                  TRAP law supporters
                  Why modern-day conservatism makes no sense to me

                  by media girl on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 09:08:29 AM PDT

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