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  •  nice (none / 0)

    here's a little true story that daniel ellsberg tells... he had already come to be against the vietnam war, but he didn't know what he could do about it.  then he saw these kids participating in civil disobediance and getting arrested.... and it made him think - is there anything useful he could do if HE was willing to get arrested?  and that is how we got the pentagon papers.

    That's a pretty fantastic example of how important unintended consequences can be. Thanks.

    I don't know about keeping your opinions of what other people are doing to yourself though. Clearly I'd stop way short of trying to interfere with anyone else's non-violent activism. We're all free to exercise our rights -- whether that's to have a big anti-war march or to voice our opinion that having such a march is of questionable merit -- and this is good.

    I think a broad discussion about strategy and what works and what doesn't is vital. There are more and less respectful/diplomatic ways to get this conversation going, but one thing I've found is that it can be awfully hard to break through to people who have been operating in one mode or for one cause for a long time. Folks get to be set in their ways, and sometimes I think there might be value to shock, to rocking the boat, to stirring up trouble.

    Me | My Work | Future Majority

    by Outlandish Josh on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 04:14:03 PM PDT

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    •  discussion vs put-downs (none / 0)

      outlandish josh,

      certainly i'm not trying to say that you (or anyone) should keep your opinions to yourself.... as you've shown here - you are perfectly able to state your opinions while being open to the opinion of others.

      so i wasn't objecting to your disagreement (and shocking people to get their attention isn't a problem either) - my objection is to the put-downs and the mocking.   that's not the way to get a discussion going - and it certainly isn't the way to get people to rethink their tactics.  indeed, i think it is actually  destructive.  anyway,  i'd much prefer introspection, discussion (of values AND effectiveness) and a serious study of social movements as you have done.

      and it is particularly irksome to have my allies (who share my values, if not my prefered style) mocked while i'm being instructed to support someone who doesn't share my values.

      anyway, thanks for the thoughtful responses.  you and kanga

      by selise on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 07:07:32 PM PDT

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