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anyone with expertise in this field? can anyone--in layman's terms--explain what gave the MPs the right to cuff him if he hadn't broken any laws?
thnx
Republican recruitment for the 82nd Chairborne at an all-time high...
by topicalstorm on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 12:52:50 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
by Shuvo Dutta on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:00:07 PM PDT
Will Bush appoint himself dictator for life? That could well be the end result if the 4th Court of Appeals decision is upheld by the Supreme Scum.
What would stop Bush from declaring that it was just too dangerous to hold the 2008 election? Surely not Joe Lieberman, he would just continue to kiss Bush and confirm incompetent jerks like Mike Brown.
by MD patriot on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:18:05 PM PDT
If he were not bound by the 2 term limit, I'd say we could expect an election-rigging in 2008, but the Republicans themselves were so outraged that a liberal would take office and impede their rollback of the New Deal for almost 16 years straight that they may have cut off their own noses to spite their face in amending the constitution to limit Presidential terms.
Warned you we tried. Listen you did not. Now screwed we all are.
by slippytoad on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:02:31 PM PDT
This was not a 'reasonable' seizure because there was no probable cause, as the MPs freely acknowledged, and no warrant was issued.
by skralyx on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:37:23 PM PDT
Serious grey area, however. I'm no expert.
Do you have a child? Will you send her to the war?... anon
by andreww on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:42:14 PM PDT
Show me a man trying to enforce martial law in America, and I will show you a foreign invader or a traitor to the Republic.
Had enough yet?
by phillies on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:48:33 PM PDT
Otherwise the US would be a police state.
Is Cheney telling us something?
by gogol on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 06:22:49 PM PDT
We talked about this in my law school class the other day. Our professor talked about how there was a press conference with everybody, and they were very careful NOT to declare martial law.
So the dude should not have been detained. Full stop.
by modchick65 on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 07:19:44 PM PDT
What I'm getting at is this: the police had reason to believe that this guy was a threat to the vice president, because it is obviously impossible to express disagreement or dissent without some act of violence.
Jumping on the politicalcompass.org bandwagon: (-3.63, -3.03) - Does that make me part of the right wing here?
by someone else on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:06:27 PM PDT
The corporate media are destroying progressive Democrats. The Clintons are destroying the Democratic Party.
by lecsmith on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:07:58 PM PDT
I lost my faith in nihilism
by PanzerMensch on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:16:09 PM PDT
I hated Bush before it was cool.
by daveriegel on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:21:14 PM PDT
The handcuffing thing-y is another kettle of fish, maybe the troops thought the guy would go off on them.
On a planetary scale, habitat and life are interchangeable.
by libbys mom on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 08:53:17 PM PDT
"Mission Accomplished" -7.62, -6.36
by wiscmass on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:10:12 PM PDT
Too bad Cheney wasn't cuffed when he said it.
by Cecile on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:21:27 PM PDT
by fiddly bits on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:27:20 PM PDT
IMPEACH
by omw on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:31:42 PM PDT
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" -- Voltaire
by ohwilleke on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:21:21 PM PDT
by Joe Willy on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:19:18 PM PDT
Just because a law enforcement officer or MP thinks someone "might" become "violent" doesn't mean that they have probable cause. The probable cause you need is that a crime has already been committed. We don't live in Minority Report land. You can't arrest or search someone because you have a hunch that they might commit a crime in the future. Every cop and secret service agent has this drilled into their heads and knows the rules. MPs could be simply ignorant (I very much doubt that the MPs were acting at the behest of the Secret Service).
Your assumption about higher standards and what is enough is, quite simply, wrong.
by ohwilleke on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:55:29 PM PDT
by firebush05 on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 07:17:34 PM PDT
by WinSmith on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:44:00 PM PDT
The Best Anti-McCain Ad [-4.25, -5.33]
by GTPinNJ on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:58:56 PM PDT
by miholo on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:26:31 PM PDT
by GTPinNJ on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:43:49 PM PDT
you scratch a redneck and you will find a liberal underneath.....
by Schtu on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:28:49 PM PDT
What I can't figure out was why the SS sent some National Guard guy to do their work for them. Short staffed on that detail, perhaps?
Fact is, this sort of thing is totally outside the jurisdiction of a Guardsman, who wasn't deputized for that sort of "investigative" work. The detention of the good Doctor was totally unlawful, as far as I can see, and a misuse of the Guard, and an abuse of authority by the SS supervisor.
Really disgusting that this is happening here -- the US has become the world's most powerful banana republic.
by leveymg on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:44:29 PM PDT
by white blitz on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:58:37 PM PDT
But, simply saying something derogatory is not an assault.
You can question anyone if they are willing to speak to you, but you can't arrest them in order to get them to speak to you without probable cause to believe that they have committed a crime.
by ohwilleke on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:19:16 PM PDT
assault is saying you will do violence, and battery is actually doing it
Dr. Marble simply suggested (in the common vernacular) that Mr Cheney fornicate himself. It might not be legal in Mississippi, but I think it's still legal in Lousianna, and it must be legal in Washington DC, right ???
by knowthings on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 12:30:48 AM PDT
Its how they get their info. I learned at a young 17 when read my miranda rights in my driveway for a crime that happened to the next door appliance store. Come to find out 5$ was stolen from their petty cash, most likely an inside job. That did not prevent an officer from showing up on my door step during a graduation half day to read me my rights. I remember being pissed, telling him my rights, and then he looked at me like I was getting too uppity, so I piped down a little, gave yes/no answers, then told him to leave my property. He intimidated my younger brother before I had got home, then hid around the block. Right when he was leaving my mom pulled up. He got an earful in the street as he blocked traffic and was forced to hear my mom give him a 'new one'.
"Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground?" -George Washington
by House on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:48:29 PM PDT
I don't really think that is what their motives were. And, the fact that they released him in fairly short order, suggests that they were really trying to intimidate him based on his speech, or didn't know that it isn't against the law to insult the Vice President. But, that would be their strongest argument.
by ohwilleke on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:10:06 PM PDT
by EdwardsRaysOfSunshine on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:18:24 PM PDT
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
by JDRhoades on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 07:22:30 PM PDT
[-8.75,-9.49]
by br00mhiLdA on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:19:30 PM PDT
by ohwilleke on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:23:00 PM PDT
Considering the possible 'explosive' circumstances, it's entirely possible that the people sent to question him felt it might be necessary to restrain him in order to make him see how serious they were?
Oh, my God. Did I just defend (by association) Cheney?
::flails::
by br00mhiLdA on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:52:24 PM PDT
For a person to be legally "Under Arrest" a judge must be present, charges must be profered by a district attorney or Grand Jury, and the arrested person must be provided counsel if he so choses
legally and technically, a person is not actually under arrest until these steps have been completed
"detainment" is the physical act of being taken into custody and held in a jail or other holding facility until the detainee is either arrested or released
under Unites States law, a person can be detained up to 72 hours or more without ever being charged with a crime ( ie Arrested). There is also a "reasonable Time" clause which can be interpreted either as shortening the 72 hour limit or extending it, based upon reasonable expectation of court room availability
being detained aint being arrested, and being arrested aint being detained. And both can happen at the same time
by knowthings on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 12:23:11 AM PDT
Frontpage story on dkos right now. No more right to due process. Americans can be detained without trial just like the 10,000 Iraqis and God knows how many others.
by nuttymango on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 12:42:18 AM PDT
wide narrow
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