Skip to main content

View Diary: Let's talk about Iraq (219 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Sorry to post and run (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bartman, JPete, dougymi, llbear

    but I am getting married on Sat, and we are about to go out on our last date. After that we go to Lake Superior for a week, so I won't be back on for a while.

    On to why I gave him a 4. Yes, he has a stupid name, but the title of this diary was "lets have a talk." Georiga10 was pointing out the Rs had a 'debate' which was one sided, and brought up some facts of her own. Then the guy with the trollish name brought up some points of his own. I was quickly TR. Georgia10 did not name the diary "lets hava an echo chamber."

    He did not say anything like "all you libs just want to see us lose the war" or "all you do is talk about the negitive." If you have a problem with the things he said, than refute him, like hopscotch1997 did on the media.

    Here is my blurb:

    Why is it our fault that jounalists are in danger, or have been injured in Iraq? Bush did not make them go there. Neither did Cheney, or Rummy for that matter. They went voluntarily, of their own free will.

    The last time I checked, it was the insurgents who were killing them, not the US Army. Who was it that wounded  Kimberly Dozier, and killed the two other members of her crew? I think it was the terrorists.

    Terrorists are the ones holding people hostage, and chopping of peoples heads. It the terrorists fault that they do those things, Bush did not force them to kill anyone.

    See you in two weeks, have fun.

    Evil prevails only when good men do nothing.

    by Mason6883 on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 06:09:58 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  The press is doing us a favor in their own (9+ / 0-)

      "voluntary" way.  Without the bravery of the press and reporters there and in other wars we wouldn't have freedom in this country.  There would be no one to shine the light on what is going on there and on what Bush is doing.  They volunteered to guard our freedom, the same as the "all volunteer army" did.  For whatever reason they joined or felt they had to join,  the soldiers in Iraq weren't forced to join the military by Bush either.  There is more than one way to defend the liberty of this country, and it takes more than one type of person, background, job and activity.  If a soldiers love of "freedom", drove them to join the army and go to Iraq, then maybe the same thing drove the reporters who died to go there too.  

    •  Congrats on your upcoming marriage. (0+ / 0-)

      Or, welcome back from your honeymoon; whichever the case may be.
      Now that I have the niceties out of the way:
      The people who live in Iraq, whose country has been invaded, whose people have been killed in the hundreds of thousands, have a right to defend their country under international law. They are not all terrorists! You are agreeing with the Bushies if you think that they are. It's their country, we have no right to be there, and they are legally within their rights to fight the invaders. And that means killing them, just as we're killing the Iraqis.
      It's really incorrect to lump all Iraqis together; some are rightfully defending their country.

      2,500 Died for Lies . . . We Fight for Peace!

      by Wbythebay on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 06:47:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  mason6883, you make some good points. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1, hopscotch1997, Wbythebay

      But I'm not going to let the 'terrorist' meme stand.  They might be insurgents or freedom fighters or mobsters.  They also might be terrorists, but these terrorists are using violence to achieve political power in Iraq.  There are Sunni 'terrorists' and Shi'ia 'terrorists' and probably Kurdish 'terrorists' too.  It's sectarian violence as politicians use force to vie for political power.  Some freaking democracy they've got there in Iraq.  We are trying to use force to create a political solution and the Iraqis are using force to create political power.

      Anyone how American troops are part of a solution to this problem?  Our troops certainly aren't The Solution by themselves.  There needs to be civilian and political solutions all working together with a military/police generated security.

      We must never lose it, or sell it, or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

      by Fabian on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 07:23:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The definition of terrorism (0+ / 0-)

        "The deliberate military targeting of civilians as a method of affecting the political behavior of nations and leaders" Caleb Carr (excellent book, btw, one of the best I have ever read, highly reccomend)

        It's sectarian violence as politicians use force to vie for political power.

        That is terrorism. While some acts commited are insurgent in nature (such as targeting colalition forces), the same people/groups behind those attacks are also targeting civilians in an attempt to undermine and reduce support and legitamacy for the new government. Therefore, they are terrorists. As for the 'freedom fighters' line, I will let that one slide

        Some freaking democracy they've got there in Iraq.

        Umm, the new government has just been filled this week. Can you at least give it a month before you declare it a failure?

        Our troops certainly aren't The Solution by themselves.  There needs to be civilian and political solutions all working together with a military/police generated security.

        Never said that they were.

        Evil prevails only when good men do nothing.

        by Mason6883 on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 11:41:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Iraq is not set up to be a Democracy (0+ / 0-)

          I keep wondering what is wrong with accepting something more suitable like a Confederation?  America spread like a disease across a continent remaking the political landscape as it went, often by force. This is our history - noble, idealistic, cruel and brutal.   Iraq's political landscape is no tabla rasa that Democracy can be imposed on as the dominant political construct. Iraq is by nature a politically deeply divided region mostly due to religion. Yet our leaders in their 'wisdom' think that foisting instant democracy on a region rife with conflicts of all types is a winning strategy. We don't have the "Germs and Steel" advantage now or even a numerical advantage.

          The Sunnis do NOT want to lose power and become a minority and some of them are willing to do whatever it takes to remain in power.  If it means working with terrorists in order to win their goals, some Sunnis will do it.  I'm not ruling out the Shi'ites or Kurds engaging in dirty terrorist tricks either.  Right now, terrorism is part of the political currency in Iraq.  The whole "Fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them over here." meme is stupid beyond belief.  We aren't fighting Them.  They are fighting each other and we are trying to simultaneously dodge IEDs, thwart suicide bombers and provide security for an entire nation whose language we don't speak and culture we don't share.  We are trying to do that with completely insufficient forces.  We are supposedly providing Iraq's national defense, border patrol, police force and FBI.  How many personnel per hundred square miles?  How many personnel per thousand citizens?  And again, we don't speak their language and require translators - what's the translator/troop ratio?

          For all those who think we can win this "war", please tell me how because I don't see it.  When I'm feeling particularly depressed, I'm tempted to give Iraq to Iran as a protectorate so we can skip the next ten to twenty years of bloodshed.

          We must never lose it, or sell it, or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

          by Fabian on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 05:13:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Congrats to you and (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vansterdam, Mason6883

      very best wishes for a long lifetime of happiness together.

      :::big hug:::

      Live the questions. - Rainer Maria Rilke

      by Kimberly Stone on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 07:49:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site