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And I don't want that filth to worm its way into the Progressive Movement. We need to stop this garbage now, not let it become an acceptable part of DailyKos.
by barryannarbor on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 03:58:42 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
Let me ask you... if this was about Italy and Italian-Americans and the cartoon instead had the gangster saying 'Juan Cole sleeps with the cippiono' would you have written this diary? Would you have been highly offended?
Couldn't you just possibly be inventing prejudice where none was intended?
Flying Squid Studios - Cartoons to Rot Your Brain!
by Arken on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:06:10 PM PDT
Hey, we hadn't thought of that! Actually, that would have made a very confusing cartoon - what would the point have been?
Tony Soprano - our stereotypical lobbyist?
by barryannarbor on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:08:48 PM PDT
As I said, if this were about Italy and Italian-Americans rather than about Israel and Jewish Americans, would you have been equally offended?
by Arken on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:11:14 PM PDT
I would be offended. If someone depicted Tony Soprano as working to advance - God forbid - the former Italian government, I'd be pissed off as hell.
If someone depicted all Arabs as being suicide bombers, I'd be pissed off as hell.
Rascist sterotypes have no place on DailyKos.
by barryannarbor on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:14:09 PM PDT
about Tony snow's 'tar baby' comment... why is that?
by Arken on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:15:14 PM PDT
Why pay attention to a jackal? Jesus, he worked for Fox.
by barryannarbor on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:16:20 PM PDT
drawn by someone will most likely not get seen by very many people merits a diary more than the White House Press Secretary making an 'offensive' remark?
You have unusual priorities.
I guess to answer your question of, 'Why pay attention to a jackal?' using this logic the response is, 'we should be paying attention to nitpicking events of little to no significance which affect virtually no one.'
by Arken on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:18:57 PM PDT
Despite myself, I care about how issues progress on DailyKos. I really do. And this cartoon has already started showing up on the sites that delight in tearing DailyKos down.
We all know what Tony Snow is. Let him dig a deeper hole for him and the rest of his corrupt administration.
by barryannarbor on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:31:04 PM PDT
there is such dissent to, and dismissiveness of, your concerns.
You can be sure those concerns are shared by numerous Kossacks and they should, at least, receive a respectful hearing.
Were the cartoons anti-semitic? Perhaps, but it's not an either/or, but rather something that falls on a continuum.
They approached anti-semitism, is what I would say, and therefore they must be addressed as such.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." - Bertrand Russell
by Karmafish on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:34:44 PM PDT
How did I live without him?
by Pumpkinlove on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:38:15 PM PDT
I think they were amply addressed, in a diary that made the rec list and got 500+ comments. And I think the argument gets weaker the more we dwell on it.
In addition, diaries calling out other diaries are bad form.
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken
by Jay Elias on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:41:29 PM PDT
I just hate to see what I take to be a fair concern dismissed too easily.
But, you're right, this was already dealt with.
by Karmafish on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:46:30 PM PDT
...which is why I told GMT that although I wasn't personally concerned, that he ought to take other people's concern more seriously in his diary.
Anyway, I'm off, have a great night.
by Jay Elias on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:50:23 PM PDT
by Karmafish on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:51:31 PM PDT
Did I read this correctly? The BushCo press sec'y is a known bad guy so why pay attention to him? This from he who never stops telling us we should pay as much attention to the Palestinian failures as the Israeli?
Do you not see an ounce of irony in your statement?
You cannot depend upon American institutions to function without pressure. --MLK Jr.
by Opakapaka on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 06:05:50 PM PDT
If a person we all agree is an idiot says something, we should discount every other person who says the same thing?
Come on - you don't honestly think we should ignore what happens on the Palestinian side of this debate, do you?
So, I have to keep asking this, what do you think of the cartoons?
by barryannarbor on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 06:15:43 PM PDT
you don't pay attention to the Bush press sec'y because you know he's a bad guy. Why do you demand others give equal time to Hamas and Islamic Jihad (known relatively bad groups) as opposed to Israel, who according to our dear congress critters (and yourself) is as pure as the spring rain.
I love the cartoon. But I'm not Sicilian, nor Jewish, so I have no reason to take it personally; and I'm not generally insecure or easily-offended--especially by artwork of very high quality, commissioned specifically for dKos by GMT, who IMO is one of the top five posters on the site, and by artwork which IMO is very representative of the actual situation (reportedly Jewish donors getting Juan Cole nixed via back-handed monetary threats).
by Opakapaka on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 06:39:10 PM PDT
I've never said Israel was pure as the spring rain. But I've found that many folks on DailyKos choose to ignore the actions of Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad while pointing out with glee anything that Israel does wrong.
That you like the cartoons - well, all I can ask is that you take a close look at the one from Der Jude, and the one that your friend posted. If you can't see the resemblance, or that you can't see the bigotry, then, at least spend some time thinking about what those cartoons say to the outside world about DailyKos.
by barryannarbor on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 06:49:42 PM PDT
..."many folks on DailyKos choose to ignore the actions of Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad"
is equivalent to
"Why pay attention to a jackal? Jesus, he worked for Fox."
No?
by Opakapaka on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 06:59:03 PM PDT
many folks on DailyKos choose to ignore the actions of Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad while pointing out with glee anything that Israel does wrong.
The actions of terrorists are not ignored by DailyKos. That is simply not true. I do understand your point that there is a higher quantity of diaries about Israel than there are about Hamas or Fatah (Israel has had slightly more diaries written about it than Harriet Meyers has had written about her), but that does not mean that people are ignoring the acts of these groups.
The reason why there is more debate about Israel is simple. It is because there's actually something to debate about. There are a substantial number of people in this community who are staunchly pro-Israel, sometimes to the point of trying to justify ALL acts of the Israeli government, no matter how blatantly destructive. Many who criticize Israel's actions speak up to argue against such apologists. These same critics equally deplore the violent acts of the groups you named, but there is nobody here defending those groups, so it is, as we say in the legal profession, "a moot point."
This lack of debate on a subject that 99.99999999... percent of us here know we all agree on is not an indication that some of us are unfairly harping on Israel. It is only a reflection that when there's nobody arguing that terrorists are good, to go around pre-emptively spouting the obvious (that they're bad), is just a waste of time. There's "no there there".
Does that make any sense?
by Balam on Sat Jun 17, 2006 at 04:00:12 PM PDT
about the "Tar Baby" comment. I saw it and I winced. But I don't actually think the comment was racist. Snow was not just tossing out a racial slur, he was referencing the Br'er Rabbit story about the tar baby (which is undoubtedly the source of the slur as well). The Br'er Rabbit stories occupy a complicated place in American racial consciousness. They are West African in origin but they come down to us via Joel Chandler Harris, a white Southerner whose own racist thinking creeps in at points. But Snow's reference was clearly to wanting to avoid getting stuck.
That said, Snow's cluelessness in making this comment is arguably a testimony to his underlying racism.
On the subject of the cartoons, they seem anti-Semitic to me. In a low-key kind of way, but still. I don't know that it deserves a new thread (in fact I think it doesn't). But as an anti-Zionist I think its important to acknowledge when criticism of Israel does cross the line.
Sick of candidate diaries? Kasama!"Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories" -- Amilcar Cabral
by Christopher Day on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 05:52:23 PM PDT
Would it offend you? If so why and if not, why not?
by Arken on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:08:24 PM PDT
by Pumpkinlove on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:18:25 PM PDT
I love that some fundamentalist christians get those 'Jesus fish eating a Darwin fish' emblems for their cars totally oblivious to the fact that an idea like that is evolution in action.
by Arken on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:20:07 PM PDT
Is the fish insulting Christianity? Actually, I've ordered a Flying Spaghetti Monster for my car.
Are you saying that the Gefilitte Fish is equivalent to portraying shadowy Jews influencing affairs?
by barryannarbor on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:21:09 PM PDT
and it's rude. I'm finished with this discussion.
by Arken on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:30:44 PM PDT
the flying spaghetti monster?
by Christopher Day on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 05:54:21 PM PDT
this link.
by Opakapaka on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 06:08:39 PM PDT
to my mother-in-law a few months ago, and she laughed and said she wanted one. She thought it would go over big at the JCS. I exercised some . . . discretion . . . and didn't get her one, because there's probably some idiot out there somewhere with no sense of humor who would be offended . . .
by Deward Hastings on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 04:26:14 PM PDT
wide narrow
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