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I don't mean to sound callous, but I'm relieved. The Israelis were preparing to kill thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians through denial of electricity, water and emergency aid through their invasion of Gaza. At least now there is hope that they will allow water and emergency services to be restored.
I hate to say it, but this was the best outcome we could hope for in this disasterous situation.
"Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" - Abraham Lincoln
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 04:49:08 AM PDT
Why not wish he was found alive?
kill thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians
Just like the "thousands" who were killed in the Jenin "Massacre," I'm sure. A pity you celebrate a murder.
-1.50, -3.95 Act Blue for Mark Warner
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 04:53:07 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
As you no doubt know already, the chances of him being found alive were always very remote. I assumed already that he had been killed, and in fact he was killed two days ago. Let's be a little bit realistic here.
I am not celebrating this one murder. I am relieved that many more murders and deaths due to lack of water, cholera from contaminated water and other causes may be averted.
Go ahead and disagree, but don't distort.
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 04:59:42 AM PDT
You specifically said you had hoped he would be found dead. Not found alive, or just plain found, but specifically found dead. If that was a poor choice of words, then I can certainly accept you saying so, but the "dead' qualifier was not necessary unless that was the state you wanted him found in.
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 05:03:41 AM PDT
The Israelis are (again) showing no respect for civilian life and international law. They were willing to kill thousands of innocents to avenge one or two of their own. This disgusts me to the point where my major concern was for the innocents. I'm probably not alone in the world in having these priorities.
From the Independent:
"I'm so surprised that they did this," said Dr Derar Abu Sisi, the operations manager at the Al Nusirat power station. "We have been right through the worst of the intifada but this didn't happen." It would, Dr Abu Sisi said, take a "minimum of three to six months" to restore supplies at a cost between $5m (£2.8m) and $7m. "The Geneva Convention says it is not allowed to attack infrastructure for the civilian people," he added. "You might expect that economic infrastructure could be a target in the last stages of a war. But this is not like that." . . . The Israeli human rights agency Btselem warned that the power cuts would jeopardise water supplies and health care. It stressed that Israel had the right to enact "all legal measures" to secure the release of Cpl Shalit but not those which conflict with international humanitarian law prohibitions against "objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population".
"I'm so surprised that they did this," said Dr Derar Abu Sisi, the operations manager at the Al Nusirat power station. "We have been right through the worst of the intifada but this didn't happen." It would, Dr Abu Sisi said, take a "minimum of three to six months" to restore supplies at a cost between $5m (£2.8m) and $7m. "The Geneva Convention says it is not allowed to attack infrastructure for the civilian people," he added. "You might expect that economic infrastructure could be a target in the last stages of a war. But this is not like that." . . .
The Israeli human rights agency Btselem warned that the power cuts would jeopardise water supplies and health care. It stressed that Israel had the right to enact "all legal measures" to secure the release of Cpl Shalit but not those which conflict with international humanitarian law prohibitions against "objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population".
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 05:08:35 AM PDT
They were willing to kill thousands of innocents to avenge one or two of their own.
This is as much of a lie as the first time you said it. Thousands of innocents aren't being killed, and it's dishonest conjecture to suggest they would have been. I hope not one more innocent is ever killed there, but as uneralistic as that is, so too is the idea that "thousands" of Palestinians were going to be murdered in the search for this teenager whom you are apparently elated was "found dead".
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 05:19:39 AM PDT
Without the power plant and clean water, thousands may still die.
I don't understand how you can minimise the enormity of the criminal acts of Israel in attacking the power plant and water supplies of a civilian population of over 1 million people which will prejudice their health and wellbeing for months to come and which may reasonably lead to thousands of deaths but make such a big deal about the death of one person at the same time.
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 05:28:35 AM PDT
I find it ancillary to elation over a teen's death, the death being the subject of this diary.
If the IDF is poisoning the Palestinian water, and I've only seen unverified claims that a Beit Hanoun treatment facility was targeted, then I absolutely condemn that. But I still won't jump for joy with you that a teenager was found dead.
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 05:44:19 AM PDT
Even NPR reported this morning that the Israeli's have significantly damaged the power station for Gaza.
by dwahzon on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:00:42 AM PDT
A power plant is not a water treatment facility.
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:02:28 AM PDT
Just say no to Larry C. Johnson
by allmost liberal european on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:09:39 AM PDT
I'm not excusing the attacks on power plants, because they were wrong, but cutting off power is very different than shelling/contaminating a plant.
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:10:42 AM PDT
Using those generators isn't cheap. Nice little way to cause more problems.
by allmost liberal european on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:17:45 AM PDT
I don't think anyone in this thread has excused attacking water treatment plants and power plants.
Who pays? Good question.
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:20:43 AM PDT
As for the water plant:
Meanwhile, the municipalities of Rafah, Khan Younis and Gaza appealed the residents to reduce the usage of water as much as possible after the Israeli forces shelled water pumps that provide the central Gaza Strip and several areas in the south with water.
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:02:11 AM PDT
You said you hoped he was found dead. You got your wish. If you plan on getting a cake, let me suggest vanilla.
As for the water treament plants, I absolutely condemn it if true. But your source is a little suspect. I'm not suggesting it's a lie, but I would like to see a slightly more believable source.
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:04:50 AM PDT
He was not a soldier.
How did I live without him?
by Pumpkinlove on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:55:46 AM PDT
I hope Kos revokes your posting privileges, because I can't believe you just endorsed MURDER!!!!
by BioPitt on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:01:43 AM PDT
so back off. I assumed he was dead. I hoped he would be found before too many others died too.
I don't approve of his murder, but nor do I approve of the disproportionate retaliation against civilians in Gaza.
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:05:55 AM PDT
You get the government you vote for. Maybe someone should teach that to the Palestinians sometime.
by BioPitt on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:07:15 AM PDT
What does it say about Israelis?
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:09:11 AM PDT
... The kidnapped soldier, Gilad Shalit, is apparently still alive in Gaza. Eliyahu Asheri is an 18 year old who was kidnapped on Sunday in a separate incident.
by Commodify Your Dissent on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:20:35 AM PDT
My sympathies to your parents -- after all the time and energy and money they spent raising you, all they got for their trouble was a total asshole.
by richter on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 07:27:45 AM PDT
to read with comprehension, to reason with logic, and to regard all peoples as equally deserving respect and consideration. It is unfortunate that you were brought up with such different values.
If you read what I wrote objectively, reasoned what I meant from my arguments, and respected my concern for the wellbeing of many thousands of people threatened by a huge military operation against them in their own land to no clear purpose except collective punishment of innocent civilians, then you wouldn't be hurling abuse.
BTW, my folks think I'm pretty terrific. My dad enjoyed YearlyKos a lot.
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 10:00:39 AM PDT
Although the fact that you are lying about it suggests some belated awareness that endorsing murder is perhaps not the wisest thing to do here at DKos.
As for your parents, I salute them for their personal bravery in the face of the tragedy of having an idiot for a son. It could not have been easy for them.
by richter on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 10:10:53 AM PDT
As for you, Warren, do you share LondonYank's happiness over the murder of an 18 year old boy? If so, I wear your troll rating with honor.
by richter on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 12:26:06 PM PDT
you had bothered to attend last week's meeting of the Zionist Occupational Government's Kos Division, you would know that it was my turn to counteract knee-jerk troll ratings. Pumpikinlove made pumpkin bread, and the Jews at the meeting decided to resign control of Hollywood. It was quite a productive session.
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 12:40:15 PM PDT
Damn! Now I'll NEVER get my screenplay done.
by richter on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 12:55:39 PM PDT
My mojo can handle it, even if your pattern of behaviour and comment is abusive and counter to troll rating policy.
I see from your comments (no diaries?) that you are fond of abuse, name calling, profanity and attack.
I'm guessing I don't have much to worry about.
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 12:38:47 PM PDT
is an incredibly charitable way to describe not only your ecstatic bliss at the death of a teenager, but your refusal of plenty of opportunities to rectify your original statement. Perhaps, "I would have preferred him to be found alive, but since that was unrealistic, I'm glad he was found before significant casualties were inflicted" or just plain "I'm glad he was found." You chose the far more loathesome, "I was hoping he would be found dead."
There's still time to admit that at best, you made a rotten choice in phrasing.
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 12:44:26 PM PDT
still an asshole for saying I was happy about his being found dead. I was not in any way "ecstatic" about his death - just pragmatically relieved that a bad situation was curbed from getting worse. Although since the power plants and water pumps have been shelled, it will inevitably get worse for the Palestinians in the weeks to come.
As the children and frail die in Gaza, will you be diarying their deaths too?
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 12:48:50 PM PDT
Let it go, LondonYank. You've apologized for the bad phrasing that allowed for misinterpretation, now move on. There are better things to debate. If people want to call you names, let it roll of you.
by weasel on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 01:00:34 PM PDT
... out of pragmatic sentiments and openly but anonymously conveying your relief in an online forum is pretty disgusting. You have to admit that for you the end does justify the means when it suits you.
by Commodify Your Dissent on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 01:21:51 PM PDT
I assumed he was dead from the start - which appears to be the case. I've made this clear repeatedly since this morning in reponse to the hysterical attacks exagerating what I wrote (which no one can read anymore anyway since it's been hidden).
If you have to make shit up to attack your critics or win an argument, you're in big trouble cuz it ain't just me who notices that human life and Israeli life seem to have very different values in these parts.
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 01:33:49 PM PDT
... means what I want it to mean". This applies perfectly in your situation. Also, by presenting a dichotomy between "human" life and "Israeli" life, you are implying that Israelis are other than human. You will also have a hard time convincing me that you value your life (in practice not in theory) just as much you value the lives of people you don't know and/or care about.
by Commodify Your Dissent on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 01:54:47 PM PDT
I think above you recognized that your choice of words led others to reasonably infer genuine joy that this teen was murdered. I'm glad to hear it was just poor word choice and not actual celebration. But...
...at best you just did it again. At worst, you just said that Israeli lives are not human lives. I hope you just misspoke and were not expressing exactly what your words just conveyed.
by Red Sox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 02:28:07 PM PDT
As for troll rating me, it's a small price to pay for calling an asshole an asshole.
by richter on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:12:50 PM PDT
for wishing death upon an innocent human being.
"Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008
by oldskooldem on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:19:51 AM PDT
and you will see that I meant only that if he was already dead he was better found sooner rather than later to save more lives.
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:21:56 AM PDT
The best outcome we could hope for. Not "the best outcome, assuming he was already dead".
Lying can never save us from another lie - Vaclav Havel
by Muwarr90 on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:27:52 AM PDT
Read London Yank's post for what it says, not for what you knee-jerkingly think it says. Trollrated. BFD. Nobody said anything about "wishing death upon an innocent human being."
(¯`*._(¯`*._(-IMPEACH-)_.*´¯)_.*´¯) It's not too late!
by nehark on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:35:38 AM PDT
We don't hope children are found dead. Any children.
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken
by Jay Elias on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:21:25 AM PDT
You wouldn't want anyone in the USA to read anything critical about Israel targeting innocent civilians and kiling their children with disease and destitution.
by LondonYank on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:24:19 AM PDT
...because I've spent so much effort trying to conceal that from people. Please. Fucking spare me.
by Jay Elias on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:25:59 AM PDT
Show me one place where Jay has ever said that he "hoped" Palestinians died. Your protests that you were misunderestood are really starting to rinj hollow.
by Muwarr90 on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:32:04 AM PDT
Israel is in Gaza because of the soldier, not the settler. The soldier has not been found.
by Pumpkinlove on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:54:40 AM PDT
You made an admirably clear statement of your opinion. Don't try to dance around it. If you didn't want to see the guy killed, then retract your statement that you did, otherwise why not proudly stand by it?
John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.
by LarryInNYC on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 07:02:24 AM PDT
wide narrow
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