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a) help appease Jewish Democrats by standing up for Israel. b) appease the anti-Israel wing of the Democratic party by bashing the Iraq War.
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by DemocraticLuntz on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 01:50:50 PM PDT
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We can have the Constitution or we can have Bush but, we can't have both.
by Friend of the court on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 02:02:10 PM PDT
Bashing Maliki isn't "bashing the Iraq War". Maliki's the elected Prime Minister of the only legitimate government that country has and, while I HATE that fucking war, the fact is he got there more legimitately than any Iraqi leader has in decades. In any case, Maliki isn't the issue in terms of the war. It's not like he's doing anything all that wrong -- he's holding together his government as well as he can. The issue is Bush not planning well enough to get the damn job done, lying to get us into the war, and not managing his resources well to reconstruct the place. Maliki's left holding the burning bag of dog shit, but it's not his fault he has it.
We love to make pretty speeches about democracy, but when an elected leader represents the positions of his people we attack him. That's absurd. Iraq has A LOT more to do with America's national interest than Israel does right now. And I say that as someone who thinks Israel has the right to pursue threats to its sovreignty -- although they're going about it in an alienating way.
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by ChicagoDem on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 02:02:43 PM PDT
is that Maliki refuses to denounce Hezbollah. I agree that it is a problem, and Dems are being very shrewd politicians by bringing this up.
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by andy k on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 02:05:37 PM PDT
What good does it do the United States to force the leader of a state with one of the biggest Shi'a populations in the Middle East to publicly denounce Hezbollah? The civil war in Iraq is a problem that transcends this conflict in Lebanon, as well as our current election cycle -- we will be dealing with it for decades. The Democrats shouldn't be trying to make it harder for the US-supported government there to maintain control. I'd much rather pass up a slam at Bush's war if it helps us maintain even a little bit of control over Iraq.
by ChicagoDem on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 02:10:21 PM PDT
It is time that he got used to it. The RIGHT thing to do is denounce terrorists who are, along with Israel, causing the deaths of hundreds of innocent people. Not to mention hezbollah's extremely violent past.
If Mr. Maliki supports Hezbollah, than Dean has a point. Why should we consider the election of a gov't that supports terrorism as "progress" in Iraq? Sorry, but Maliki has not done the right thing by refusing to admonish Hezbollah, his political situation aside. Dean and other Dems are calling him on it.
by andy k on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 02:26:27 PM PDT
Much of Maliki's support base is made up of people the US has or would easily call "terrorists". The relationships between different ethnic groups and political factions are much more complicated in that region than here, and to insist that he issue all of his public statements along the lines of American definitions of "terrorists" in defiance of the sentiments of his constituents is unreasonable. It's particularly absurd when you're holding him up to the United States Senate, in which many members voted on everything from the PATRIOT Act to the war based solely on domestic political considerations.
Just as a reminder, most liberals were outraged that Bush was asking European leaders to join the "Coalition of the Willing", precisely because he was asking them to ignore the wishes of their constituents. Yet we're prepared to ask the same of Maliki, even when the stakes are so much higher for both him and us.
by ChicagoDem on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 02:35:04 PM PDT
by arubyan on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 04:24:49 PM PDT
What good does it do the United States to force the leader of a state with one of the biggest Shi'a populations in the Middle East to publicly denounce Hezbollah?
Once upon a time a leader could take a bold position. He could stand for right over wrong. He could take a risk. He could lead his people in a different direction.
Should we really be surprised that Bush's hand-picked leader of Iraq is a small-minded short-sighted man?
by arubyan on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 04:24:02 PM PDT
Nixon could go to China because he had a huge influx of ex-Democrat white racists in his party ready to let him do whatever the hell he wanted on foreign policy as long as he kept the civil rights movement from getting any further than it already had. Had China been the major focus of domestic politics at the time, Nixon almost certainly couldn't have gone. Politics always matters, and when it comes to the issue of opposition to Israel, the vast majority of Iraqis are much closer to Hezbollah's position than the United States'.
Yeah, the US intervened in his selection, but he WAS one of the most democratically elected Iraqi leaders in the history of the country. And he IS still accountable to an elected Parliament. All the Dems would do by forcing him to stand with us instead of the Iraqis is inch him closer to assasination or deposition.
by ChicagoDem on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 04:43:42 PM PDT
We love to make pretty speeches about democracy, but when an elected leader represents the positions of his people we attack him.
I most certainly do NOT support Maliki and it is because he is wrong. W-R-O-N-G.
You might disagree, but there you are.
BTW, according to your logic we should not attack Tom DeLay (or whomever) -- he is "an elected leader" and he "represents the positions of his people."
Baloney.
Whatever happened to right and wrong?
by arubyan on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 04:21:10 PM PDT
Attacking Tom Delay doesn't HURT us in any way, and it helps the cause of good. Attacking Maliki just accelerates the civil war and hurts even our poor efforts to keep a lid on Iraqi violence. Iraq has nothing to do with the conflict in Lebanon. Maliki's government is NOT supporting Hezbollah, though he may profess ideological sympathy. His statement has literally zero impact, other than building political support at home. Where's the cost-benefit there? Whether or not you think he's "W-R-O-N-G" is immaterial, it's what the Iraqi people think that matters.
I never supported Bush's war, but I'm not rooting for the Iraqi government to fail now. Frankly, in their calls for Maliki to reject a majority political position in his country in order to satisfy our vanity, the Dems are sacrificing our (already limited) ability to keep the lid on the violence in Iraq. Who does that help in the long term?
For what it's worth, many "mainstream" liberal commentators agree with me, including the folks over at The American Prospect.
by ChicagoDem on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 04:55:52 PM PDT
I never supported Bush's war, but I'm not rooting for the Iraqi government to fail now....their calls for Maliki to reject a majority political position in his country in order to satisfy our vanity, the Dems are sacrificing our (already limited) ability to keep the lid on the violence in Iraq.
I don't give two craps about Maliki -- any "leader" who doesn't lead is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
I don't care if 99% of the people support Maliki.
Even to a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.
by arubyan on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 06:54:07 PM PDT
bashing our massive amounts of spending going down the drain on the Iraq war, and to highlight the Bush hypocrisy of spreading democracy, when it looks like we instead spread out a new Islamofascist regime.
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by BruinKid on Wed Jul 26, 2006 at 03:43:27 PM PDT
wide narrow
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