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  •  I heard that he was planning to (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    davybaby, Bouwerie Boy

    stay in the race on the Green party line if he loses the primary (from a Green here).

    Is this true?

    If it is, nobody should be supporting him.

    •  Don't think so (3+ / 0-)

      The Greens like him and are supporting him. But Chris has always been a loyal Democrat, always taking a leadership role. I have been told by someone close to the campaign that he has no intention of running as a Green, but I have not discussed it with him. My inside source basically said, "running as a Green would do him no good." I have also been told by a local Green that Chris once got very angry at him for leaving the Dem party.

      I will point out, however, that running third party is somewhat different in Brooklyn where Republicans don't get very far. Letisha James is an excellent candidate who got shut out by the local Dem party machine so she ran WFP line...and won. She has been a very popular representative for her district ever since winning each time she runs for re-election. How this comapres with Lieberman I am not sure, but I do like Tish James.

      •  Sincerity speaks loudly (1+ / 0-)

        No one can predict the future, but having met and spoken with Chris many times, I believe he is sincere and a progressive Democrat thru and thru.

        Coast-to-Coast Pizza-Arugula-Keilbasa Run for Obama! - *Here* - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/5/155525/0947

        by Blue Waters Run Deep on Sat Aug 19, 2006 at 05:36:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  WFP is one thing, Green is quite another (4+ / 0-)

        especially with what's been happening in PA.

        The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

        by sidnora on Sat Aug 19, 2006 at 05:37:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well now. . . (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          davybaby, Bouwerie Boy

          we seem to have established a pretty clear standard in Connecticut -- we expected both Lieberman and Lamont to pledge, absolutely, to abide by the results of the Democratic primary and support the winner.  If we apply the same standards here in New York, third party runs would be completely forbidden and no dKosser would allow themselves to support, in the primary, anyone who had not pledged to forego a third party run in the general.

          John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

          by LarryInNYC on Sat Aug 19, 2006 at 06:01:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I understand your point (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            DemocracyLover in NYC

            and in a world of perfect consistency you'd be perfectly right.

            But the point I was trying to make is that the motives of the parties in question matter, too.

            Third parties wouldn't exist at all if they merely served as extra ballot lines for major-party candidates. WFP has historically been somewhat to the left of the corruption-plagued Brooklyn Democratic Party, and certainly more reformist in nature, so it has sometimes served as a platform for the kind of candidates Kossacks like, while the Democratic line was occupied by a minion of the corrupt and jailed Clarence Norman (former head of the Brooklyn Dem org.). It has other aims, and its own factions, and therefore its endorsements do not always please me - for instance, this year they have endorsed Hakeem Jeffries over Bill Batson, whom I support, and have made no endorsement in NY-11 due to an internal split. But often they and the reformist wing of the local Dems are in agreement, not only on candidates, but, more importantly, on our ultimate goals.

            Those of us who care are also working hard on reforming the local Democratic Party; if we are successful (a tall order, and it's not going to happen overnight), we might see WFP lose support to the Dems, who would then be far better able to accomplish the same goals.

            The Greens, on the other hand, have a national organization and strategy that should trouble anyone who thinks of themselves as a Democrat.

            The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

            by sidnora on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 04:03:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I e-mailed the campaign about it. (0+ / 0-)

        I'll be writing a diary about whatever response I get.

        •  Fair enough (0+ / 0-)

          If he DOES run as a Green I'd be seriously torn. I am no fan of the Greens, but I am a fan of Chris and see him as sincere in his beliefs. Many NYC races have runoffs if no one gets over 50%. That is not the case with this race. So, with 4 candidates, the "winner" of the primary may only have some 30% of the vote. A third party run would take the place of a runoff vote.

          Is that okay? I don't know. Again. I look to Tish James who I am very happy is on the City Council. But I am no fan of the Greens and I realize that the comparison with Lieberman (who I have not condemned for a third party run) is inevitable.

          Fair enough asking him and fair enough requiring consistency among Democrats. But...for me it's all about the candidate. I have done my duty to the party when it came to helping out, for example, Ferrer. When I see a candidate who is a friend and really dedicated, I consider that a rare opportunity to fight hard for somone I am CONVINCED will be good in Congress. That is my main focus.

          •  Anything wrong (0+ / 0-)

            with him running -- if he wins the Dem primary -- on both Dem and Green tickets? Or (if he gets the chance) on even more tickets than that? The New York system seems odd to those of us in other states, but if a bunch of parties in New York think one person is the best candidate (and that candidate agrees to be supported by them), it looks like a win/win situation to me.

            © sardonyx; all rights reserved

            by sardonyx on Sat Aug 19, 2006 at 06:26:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The problem is (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              sardonyx, Bouwerie Boy

              that in order to get one of the third party lines in New York (and they are valuable out of all proportion to their actual representation) you generally have to promise to run on that line even if you don't get the major party nomination.  And you have to promise to run hard because those parties want to maintain their ballot access, for which they need 50,000 votes (I think) in each election.

              So, to even entertain accepting a minor party line in New York you essentially have to violate the Lamont pledge of supporting the Democratic primary winner.

              John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

              by LarryInNYC on Sat Aug 19, 2006 at 06:30:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Is that true? (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Bouwerie Boy, Steve WFP

                Most incumbents are also on the WFP line. It is very common. In fact, WFP endorses most Dem incumbents.

                I know what you are getting at, but in general cross-endorsements are common in NY.

                •  Is what true? (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  Bouwerie Boy

                  Yes, cross-endorsements are common.  But, in general, to get the minor party line the candidate must pledge to that Party that he or she absolutely will run on their line even if he or she is not the major party candidate.  So the endorsements are common but so are those pledges -- and those pledges automatically violate the new dKos standard.

                  If I recall correctly it was Andrew Cuomo's screw up (withdrawing from the race so as not to lose the primary) which wound up costing the Liberal Party it's ballot line in New York.

                  John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

                  by LarryInNYC on Sat Aug 19, 2006 at 06:37:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Hmmmm... (3+ / 0-)

                    What it sounds like to me is that the dKos standard your refer to may be inappropriate to NY given the common practice of cross-endorsements. If we are going to cut off both our Senators and most of our Conrgessmen, then it doesn't work for NY.

                    Of course my opposition to Lieberman is not because of his running as an Ind. It;s the issues.

                  •  that's usually only true for the governor's race (0+ / 0-)

                    since the votes a party gets in the governor's race are what determines ballot status.

                    And Cuomo withdrew as the Liberal Party candidate so he wouldn't take votes away from Carl McCall, the Democratic Party candidate.  Had he been running for a different office than governor, it wouldn't have had an impact on the Liberal Party ballot line.

                •  I believe Larry is correct. (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  DemocracyLover in NYC, Steve WFP

                  But it's not usually an issue re WFP, because they are so often in sync with the Dems.

                  And Brooklyn really is different - this is a one-party town (or county, more accurately), and as I have mentioned before, that leads to all the same abuses of power that we see in Washington today. Just because they are being perpetrated by Democrats doesn't make them better. The former leader of the Brooklyn Democratic Party is in jail. There are Democrats, and then there are Democrats.

                  If we had no third parties here, our only hope for change would be through internal reform, and while we're working on that, you know it's not going to happen overnight. I'm perfectly OK with supporting WFP candidates when I see them as being truer to the spirit of the Democratic Party than some machine-bred crook who's got the Dem line on the ballot. This is because I see their goals as being pretty much the goals of the National Democratic Party. I would, however, have a very major problem with supporting someone who was running solely as a Green.

                  The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

                  by sidnora on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 04:19:17 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks for the info (0+ / 0-)

                I'm assuming that the candidates have to have filed for each party's ballot line before the September primary...which would, indeed, violate the post-primary Democratic unity support if they lost the Democratic primary but won another party's nod.

                © sardonyx; all rights reserved

                by sardonyx on Sat Aug 19, 2006 at 09:02:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  I think we'd know already (0+ / 0-)

      since you have to gather petitions to get on the ballot and the petitions were already due.

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