Daily Kos

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  •  I never served in the military ... (107+ / 0-)

    ...because I refused to fight in what I took to be an immoral war in Vietnam. My choices for getting out were deferment trickery (like chickenhawks of Dick Cheney's ilk), lying about mental health or sexual orientation (or having bad knees like Pat Buchanan), leaving the country or going to prison.

    I chose prison. Which turned out to be a prison camp. It wasn't awful - after all, my best friend in high school was killed in Vietnam, so I had it easy - but I was confined for my political views, something we like to think doesn't happen in this country.

    I am not recommending this for you. Because I guarantee you it would change your life forever. Once you're in uniform, they've got you by the short hairs. Refusing to go back could wreck your career, squelch your education, piss off your family and friends, give you a black mark you'll never escape. Moreover, I'm sure you'd be imprisoned for a lot longer than I was.

    Sticking to your principles under these circumstances is a lot harder than most people think, including a lot of people around DKos who spout off from their cozy computer corner about being freedom fighters, revolutionaries or otherwise refusing to be complicit with the system. Yet I don't hear many saying they won't pay their war taxes, much less refuse a direct order from their commandant.

    Good luck, filmgeek83, in trying to decide what you're going to do. In my opinion, you've already done more than your share of service to our country. Please know that there are many of us here who are pulling for you not to be called up, but whose broader hopes are that all the troops are brought home as soon as possible and that we stop this relentless and criminal stupidity.

    I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

    by Meteor Blades on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 11:33:06 PM PDT

    •  dude.... (11+ / 0-)

      You are so recommended for that.  And you are so right - how many here would refuse to pay their war taxes and go to prison, like say...Thoureau?

      Liberals drive me crazy. Unfortunately, conservatives are even worse.

      by goblue72 on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 12:14:14 AM PDT

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    •  so, Mr. Blades (15+ / 0-)

      Not only are you a fine writer, you're also a winter soldier.

      Thank you for your service.

    •  You don't answer the question (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      victoria2dc

      why is it a potential cause for imprisonment if a soldier requests to be accepted as a conscientious objector to be recalled in a war, he had actually already dutifully served as an active enlistee, and by now has understood to be an illegal war based on false facts and statements by the Commander in Chief. I just don't understand how "the war on terror" an "attack on Iran" or the "pre-emptive attack and invasion of Iraq" could ever be categorized as a war that complies with the US constitution and the Geneva Conventions. If it's unconstitutional warfare, it can't be illegal to refuse to serve in it.

      •  I will - (3+ / 0-)

        voluntarily singing up for the armed services is de facto proof that you are not a conscientious objector, as far as the law is concerned.

        Now, you can do what Watada is doing, and claim the war is illegal, but you'll be in prison while that gets sorted out, and just like Watada, you will eventually lose and do some hard time.  Which is still better than having your brains blown out.

        They're calling our bluff and all we're holding is a Pelosi and a Hoyer.

        by arbiter on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 06:29:25 AM PDT

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        •  well, if that is so, the laws are bad. (0+ / 0-)

          Signing up should never prove the fact that your commander in chief can force soldiers to serve a civilian oligarchy commanding the military into a war, which is illegal according international war laws and partly according to the US constitution and the UCMJ.

          When it comes to a decision, which laws a soldier has to serve first, international war laws, the US constitution and the UCMJ or the legal obligation of you signed contract, it seems to be unlikely that the contract laws would override constitutional and international war laws or the UCMJ.

          Signing up for the armed forces doesn't mean you sign up for serving a commander, who engages in illegal war activities. It means you serve a commander, who complies with constitutional and international war laws, at least in my books and in my moral standards.

          You think because the commander in chief uses the "Freedom" banner as a fig leaf to justify his wars, stirring up all over the world resentment and hate against his "efforts to spread, ie. enforce militarily freedom everywhere", everybody will buy into it and not see it as for what it really has become nowadays, a fig leaf for a naked emperor?

          I heard today on the radio Dick Army saying in defense of the Iraq war policies of the Republicans and the Bush administration: "The Americans should be proud of themselves and their country, it's the only country in the world, who loves freedom so much that it even sacrifices its own people to fight for the freedom of others."

          This argument caused Americans to buy into any ideologically based wars the Americans have engaged in. I don't blame them. It sounds good, makes you feel good and makes the soldier feel that "war gives him meaning". But it can't be a justification for imposing your freedom ideologies with military might on other nations pre-emptively and agressively.

          For decades and centuries Americans were raised to be the defendor and beacon of freedom and I know that til today almost all Americans believe in that self-declarated role.

          But with the end of the cold war, you have used up this justification and the argument doesn't fit as a justification for engaging in an never ending "international war against terror" with military might.

          I don't blame the US armed forces for the way they don't or can't fight against terrorists, but are misused by the commander in chief to fight in a war that causes terrorism and jihadism to increase.

          I blame the commander in chief to engage in reckless big-mouthed bully talk, persue a dumb approaches to "secure this country" and to use illegal methods to enforce his security policies.

          I blame the commander in chief for the imorality of his war in Iraq, an invasion and occupation justified behind the figleaf of "spreading freedom and democracy". Wouldn't even as bad if it would work, but it doesn't. And apparently the Americans were the only ones, who didn't understand that it wouldn't work.

          I blame the Congress for not checking on executive powers of the commander in chief. If American lives are sacrificed for those policies, then, I beg to ask, to force ALL Americans to sacrifice and don't hide behind a contract of so-called volunteer armed forces and make some people more holier, more heroic than others for their sacrifices. It's a cop-out that allows the executive to abuse the military.

          Why aren't the Americans engaged in solidarity and loyalty to each other? Carry the burdens of war all equally? Carry the burden of universal health care all equally? With all that great compassion for freedom, there is apparnetly no compassion at all for solidarity, fairness and equality in sharing burdens, all for everybody. I don't see it on the political level, at least.

          The way soldiers are recruited these days reminds me of cheap used car dealership lemon deals. The more lemon the wars will become, the higher the "bonus" offered to buy into a lemon contract. Nothing honorable about it anymore.  

          A true volunteer army would volunteer into these contracts without ANY bonuses, GI bills etc. But if you can't trust the military's civilian leadership to lead morally acceptable and legal wars, I guess you have to pay a high price for your "volunteer army". What a waste of money, morals and emotions.

          .

      •  If Congress did its job, then (6+ / 0-)

        it would not fall upon the individual soldier to have to contemplate such a dilemma because an illegal unconstitutional war would not be permitted to exist.  This is a testament to the structural failures of government and society at large.  

        The intrinsic nature of Power is such that those who seek it most are least qualified to wield it.

        by mojo workin on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 06:34:16 AM PDT

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    •  I don't have words... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GreyHawk, flumptytail

      ...for how much I think of you MB.  I'm beyond honored.  Not that I'm anything close to the first.

      The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

      by Jay Elias on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 08:23:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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