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The official US and world position is that Iraq is a state, so arming and training one faction in the brewing civil war is likely contributing to it's collapse.
As for the Kurds being "the good guys," that's kind of absurd. They are just one interest group, much like any other. The Arab's in Kirkuk who have been driven out by Kurds don't view the Kurds as good guys (though Kurds point out that many Arabs were move in by Saddam in the 80s to control Kirkuk better). The Turkomen in many of the northern towns don't view the Kurds as good guys.
Israel is operating under a plan to build allies, and really to weaken any potentially strong and hostile government in the Arab or Muslim world. As such, Israel sees an interest in forces of disunity in Iraq, especially if those forces could also sow disunity later in Iran. Thus, Israel is working at cross-purposes to anyone who is working to stablize Iraq and keep it as one country.
by weasel on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 10:47:14 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
...the Kurds deserve an independent state?
by JPhurst on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 10:49:39 AM PDT
If contained to what is now Iraq, that wouldn't be a problem. But the Kurds want a state that would include parts of Turkey and Iran. That would be way to destabalizing.
If Hillary Clinton wins, the Democratic Party loses.
by Paleo on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 10:52:10 AM PDT
They want Kirkuk. Kirkuk has a large Arab population that doesn't want to be "ethnically cleansed" from their homeland.
But okay, let's take the position of partitioning Iraq into three. Well, since the Sunnis get no oil in that situation they have no choice but to resort to full-on civil war.
But with 6600 dead in the last two months, maybe that wouldn't be a big change.
You got no fear of the underdog. That's why you will not survive. - Spoon
by brainiacamor on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 11:05:15 AM PDT
Is that the debate we're having? At the very least, it goes against the stated intentions of the US, UN, Iraq, and the Kurdish government themselves. Further, the Kurds have a history of allying themselves with very untrustworthy sponsors.
The Israelis would certainly follow that model. They are not there to help Kurds, but to prevent a strong Iraq and to fuck with Iran as well. The Israelis would sell out the Kurds in a second if their tension with Iran came to an end, if they got a better deal with the Iraqi government, to protect their alliance with Turkey, or for any other reason that suits them.
So don't give me Kurdish independence crap. Israeli commandos are certainly not the way to attain it. Having US soldiers die in a possibly futile effort to hold Iraq together while our putative ally Israel works to pull it apart is enough to cause a little bile.
by weasel on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 11:04:51 AM PDT
that many lefties vehemently supported the Kurds and the Kurdish desire for a homeland.
What is one of the main charges against Saddam? His gassing of the Kurds.
From my understanding (I haven't been to "Kurdistan," only listened at symposiums or to others) many of Kurds have blondish hair and green eyes.
Turkey has approved building a dam that will result in the destruction of a vast portion of the Kurdish area there in Turkey.
Yet, here we are, many will disagree with this aid --simply because it is Israel.
by bronte17 on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 12:18:04 PM PDT
objection to Israel's military aid to the Kurds makes sense seeing as how Iraqis and the Iraqi government don't like Israel and as of 9/21/06, a UN recognized Kurdistan does not exist. Iraqis don't like us either, but they for damn sure don't like Israel. Does the Iraqi gov't even recognize Israel? This kind of thing really makes things worse in Iraq and for Iraqis and for us.
Not good...
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.
by callmecassandra on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 12:46:48 PM PDT
now.
If bush hadn't illegally invaded Iraq and occupied and destroyed that country, I'd bet you would be arguing that we should step up and help the Kurds gain their freedom from under Saddam's yoke. That topic was on many many liberal lips for many many years.
The Kurds, the Zapatistas, the Palestinians.
But, now you change your tune.
by bronte17 on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 05:04:19 PM PDT
I'm not 'you', I'm Cassandra.
What does Israel arming Kurds have to do with Kurd's liberation from Iraq? Did I somehow make mention that Kurds shouldn't seek liberation from Iraq? I would no more say that about the Kurds than I would about the Palestinians...But just as you may object to Palestinians receiving weapons from Iraq under Saddam or Iran, I have the same problem with Kurds receiving weapons from Israel.
It's not good...both Kurds and Palestinians are being used by regional powers and it's only the Kurds and Palestinians who will suffer for it, not Israel and not Iran, neither governments care about the welfare of the Kurds or the Palestinians (note that I said governments). So yes of course, I object. And what Israel is doing now re arming the Kurds will make things worse in Iraq. That's a fact and has nothing to do with whether one believes Kurds should or shouldn't have their own state.
by callmecassandra on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 06:29:01 PM PDT
but it isn't as insulting as "you" let on.
And, hold your pretensions close. It will make you feel good.
I have to move on now in the real world.
by bronte17 on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 08:22:38 AM PDT
Just truth. You don't have to like it, but it'll still be there in the morning.
Come by anytime you want more...
by callmecassandra on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 09:13:25 AM PDT
wide narrow
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