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of incredibly mean-spirited, smug, self-righteous, sanctimonious people on kos. It's really sad.
Choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. -- teacherken
by Mehitabel9 on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 07:31:59 AM PDT
And that's why I usually just lurk. It simply isn't worth it (to me) to take the effort to write a diary, and then have it sniped at, rather than discussed. This from someone who spent 4 years on the Fray at Slate; I can take sniping from the best of them. "X" is a better man than me for refusing to give up, a much better man.
You can't support the Constitution and the GOP at the same time!
by Arsenic on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 07:51:19 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I've been on dKos for probably about 2 1/2 years or so, maybe more, can't recall. However, I have never once diaried, mostly because of the way folks are treated. I can understand whooping it up when someone intends to be comical or snarky, but when someone is sincere, even if they are of a differing opinion, there is no reason to be rude and offensive. Which leads me to why are there so many "nice folks" who have to be grammar police? Don't you folks have anything better to do than nit pick at every one else?
"Hillary Hate" is a disease that will not be cured until after the primaries.
by emsprater on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 07:58:11 AM PDT
I agree, grammar police are almost as obnoxious as hard right wingers.
Generals gathered in their masses Just like witches at black masses.. Evil minds that plot destruction Sorcerers of deaths construction..........
by pissedpatriot on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:23:39 AM PDT
when there's a question as to what the diarist or commentor means or what the reference is. Sometimes a grammatical or spelling error can alter the entire meaning of a sentence or phrase. For example, there's quite a difference between Clark (as in Wes - Democrat) vs. Clarke (as in Richard - Republican); Iran vs. Iraq. Otherwise, I try to make it clear that it's a polite correction, not an overly critical one meant as an "attack."
My Karma just ran over your Dogma
by FoundingFatherDAR on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 10:14:34 AM PDT
...(and factual) corrections to diaries. And usually thank the person who points it out and make an edit, unless they're really nasty about it. Less tolerant about an error in a comment once pointed out and acknowledged: What's the point of pointing out the error several times more? When you can't edit the comment?
Usually the best thing is to just skip over the grumps, though.
John McCain voted against health care for kids.
by Land of Enchantment on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:26:36 AM PDT
Often, the writing of many here in the DKos community encourages me to practice critical thinking and improve my own writing. Frequently, I long for spellcheck as a comment feature. Every once in a while, because of what I read here, I try my hand at humor in a comment. Sometimes, some of the behavior of the community is daunting; on rare occassion it is appalling. In the end, I consider myself fortunate to be here.
~Understand strong progressive framing, support progressive infrastructure~
by CalifSherry on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 10:14:39 AM PDT
...do matter, don't they?
by Land of Enchantment on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 10:16:16 AM PDT
An Ai-ki-do teacher once put me through my paces in an exercise she called the hit is a gift. The idea being that attitude and response are under the control of the recipient of the hit/gift. The experience can vary wildly and, as it is energy coming at you, having a range of possible responses - practice - makes a big difference.
by CalifSherry on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 02:11:38 PM PDT
is when comments are made equating a person's typing or spelling ability with their perceptive ability; negating comments with an ad hominum attack.
by Arsenic on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 07:51:59 PM PDT
If there were, I'd never have become a Trusted User. Because I make oddles of typing errors!
by Land of Enchantment on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 08:12:05 PM PDT
...I'm usually smug, self-righteous and mean-spirited off DKos, as well.
I am aware of all internet traditions.
by dennisl on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 08:01:47 AM PDT
I've known a few who are as nice as nice can be IRL, but when they get in front of a computer monitor, it's like road rage. I assume it's because A) they feel safe behind the [relative] anonymity of a keyboard, and/or B) they see it all as 'just words on a screen' and conveniently forget that behind the words are real people with real brains and real emotions.
by Mehitabel9 on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:39:56 AM PDT
I have a twelve year old son who is very intelligent... but he has multiple learning disabilities. I've had to fight every step of the way to get him extra help at the schools. Even with the extra help, it is likely that he will probably never spell well and that his handwriting will be nearly illegible.
I've seen so many diarists and commenters here treated like shit because they spell poorly or use incorrect grammar. I've been sickened and heartbroken by the cruelty displayed by some here.
My son's heart is broken daily when the kids at school call him stupid because he can't spell or write well. It breaks my heart to realize that no matter how good his ideas are, or how important his input, he will be treated like he's stupid for the rest of his life because of his disabilities.
The spelling and grammar nazis should be ashamed of themselves. Even people who don't express themselves with proper spelling and grammar deserve to be heard.
Shit, now I'm crying.
Thank you for this very important diary.
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain
by Shaniriver on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 08:29:24 AM PDT
If he can't spell, he is in good company.
JFK couldn't spell worth a damn.
And Benjamin Franklin seemed to just make it up as he went along. Check out this letter that Franklin wrote.
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having // Swords Crossed
by quaoar on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 08:43:03 AM PDT
I'm LD myself. Not in the ways your son is, but LD all the same. I've written about it here
On being weird
reposted and revised in
On being weird: Nonverbal learning disabilites
On pain and politics: A personal story
Hope they help. Give your kid a lot of love, that helps for sure
Now up: What are you reading? Mystery mania!
by plf515 on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:07:30 AM PDT
give that guy a hug for me
If we cannot elect this man, we don't deserve him.
by lisastar on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:33:28 PM PDT
there are also people that are way to critical of other peoples diary content. Some people aren't as good as expressing themselves as others. I have the urge to troll rate people that bust in on other peoples dairies just to say that their diary sucks. There is no need. If you don't like the diary, don't read it. Keep your negativity to yourself. People are so quick to label other people trolls who have a differing opinion.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain
by dotdot on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 08:49:01 AM PDT
"incredibly mean-spirited, smug, self-righteous, sanctimonious people" in the world. There is no reason to expect that an open community like DKos will be immune. Having to be exposed to them is an unfortunate side-effect of free speech and democracy. We can just hope that the 'redeemable' ones will become a little more enlightened.
"I beseech you,... think it possible you may be mistaken." -- Cromwell/Bronowski
by jockyoung on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:40:45 AM PDT
That is quite the incredibly mean-spirited, smug, self righteous, sanctrimonious comment there.
It's really sad that it got 76 recommends.
I am completely serious. For I am sure you and the 76 recommenders are CERTAIN that you are not among those evil ones.
How very smug and sanctimonious of you.
Let's Go Gators!
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 10:15:31 AM PDT
cause it's true.
How do you suggest opposing the incredibly mean-spirited, smug, self-righteous, sanctimonious people, when logic, pleas to stop, and civil discourse don't work?
The worst thing about bullies is that you have to descend to their level to oppose them effectively. I have yet to find anything that works
How do you suggest opposing bullies who (unlike you) have no intention or ability to hear criticism of any kind?
Yell Louder!!! @ Docudharma
by buhdydharma on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 10:29:38 AM PDT
or ignore them. The only options.
Luckily for me, I know what you are referencing.
I believe that they will be less active in those threads in the future.
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 10:34:52 AM PDT
expressed it (haha, more irony!)in a kinder manner, it is important to address that part of the culture here.
Elections have consequences, one of them should be a change of tone here, we are no longer a ragtag band of rebels. We are in charge now and have to act civilized.
Sniping at trolls is one thing, being rude just for the sake of showing off our cleverness is another.
by buhdydharma on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:37:55 AM PDT
We aren't in charge. WE need to remain a rag tag band of rebels to hold those WE put in charge to their commitments.
I don't think anyone here is advocating rudeness for its own sake.
If we abandon our ideals in the face of adversity and aggression, then those ideals were never really in our possession. - Cpt. Ian Fishback
by Rick Oliver on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:45:23 AM PDT
practicing yes.
And, imo, the change we need to make is from a ragtag band to a ragtag army.
All I'm saying is lets stop scaring away allies. Understanding, of course, that its a VERY fine line between effective and harmful allies.
by buhdydharma on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:50:30 AM PDT
advocating in this thread.
by Rick Oliver on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:52:28 PM PDT
shhhhhhhh about the other thing!
sleeping dogs
< wink >
by buhdydharma on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:40:38 AM PDT
You're not kidding. What the hell was that? (not expecting a resonse)
I stayed away 'cause I was completely baffled by the whole sorry episode.
by Rick Oliver on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:54:12 AM PDT
right or wrong....and quite possibly wrong, in the big picture.....it was my line in the sand.
see my first comment
by buhdydharma on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:01:24 PM PDT
dogs are sleeping. Too many people I respect were getting entirely too ugly with one another.
But sometimes 'ya gotta do what 'ya gotta do.
by Rick Oliver on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:26:48 PM PDT
if it came up to you and offered you a blowjob for ten bucks. /snark
Okay. Serious response, since you've laid some pretty serious accusations at my feet.
1 - Whether that comment was smug and all the rest is a matter of opinion. I certainly didn't feel smug or sanctimonious when I wrote it. I just felt sad, because I'd read the diary and comments in question, and they pained me.
2 - Am I one of those evil ones? Quite possibly, sometimes. Not deliberately, though. Sometimes I make jokes that don't translate well from my brain to the intertubes, and that come off sounding bad. Sometimes I'm angry and say things that come off sounding bad. Sometimes I'm so angry that I don't care whether I sound bad or not.
But I do make an effort not to be mean-spirited just for the sake of being mean-spirited. I'm quite certain that my success rate falls short of 100%, but I do try. Meanness for its own sake, to try to make those who are already vulnerable feel small or shamed as a way of making oneself feel powerful and superior, makes me feel a little sick to my stomach when I see it. And so I try not to do it.
But some people really get off on that kind of thing. They're called bullies. I see it IRL and I see it here. And my saying so doesn't by default make me any of those things you accuse me of being.
by Mehitabel9 on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:31:33 AM PDT
Am I one of those evil ones? Quite possibly, sometimes. Not deliberately, though.
Who do you think is deliberately bullying?
I'll give you some possible choices if you like:
Me. DHinMi. Markos. Miss Laura. pyrrho. Goldfish.
Are any of those people deliberately bullies? Your tarring by accusation without names is truly uncivil.
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:39:30 AM PDT
Since you've asked me a direct question about yourself, I'll give you a direct answer. I do not think that you are a bully by nature. I do, however, think that you are impatient, intolerant, and quick to anger, and therefore are capable of behaving like a bully at times.
As for the rest of it, I didn't come here for a fight and I'm disinclined to give you one on demand.
Peace.
by Mehitabel9 on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:50:01 AM PDT
But not deliberately.
You did not come for a fight, just for the smear.
Your first comment was uncivil, smug, hypocritical, bullying and outrageous. And was rewarded with 80 fours.
Making a mockery of this diary and the so-called sentiments for civility.
This is all a big joke obviously.
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:54:37 AM PDT
Hell, I didn't even smear you, though you seem to really want me to. I can't imagine why that is, unless maybe you're hoping that your smears on me won't look so over-the-top.
by Mehitabel9 on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:07:43 PM PDT
Who do you think you are kidding with that? The unspoken names that go with the many accusations?
If I am to voice the accusations you make I will put names on them. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut about it.
That is the CIVIL thing to do.
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:15:57 PM PDT
Whatever else you are, BTD: Scary smart, a disciplined thinker and writer, frequently right, just as frequently wrong -- you are the last person on DK who has any business defining civility. You're no more familiar with that concept than you are the concept of irony.
by Mehitabel9 on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:28:55 PM PDT
I think you have disqualified yourself.
As for irony, you really do not see the irony in someone as uncivil as you loecturing on civility?
The next time you see me lecture on it and insist on it then you could argue that my statements were ironic.
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:55:47 PM PDT
"Uncivil" is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
precisely why this diary is ill advised without evidence to back up the specific clams made.
by Rick Oliver on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:56:01 AM PDT
perhaps inappropriate.
Armando is gone! Stop defending him!
Long live BTD!
by buhdydharma on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:53:45 AM PDT
I hate smug, sanctimonjous hypocrisy and I haqte when this communtiy embraqces it.
I hate that comment and the endorsement it received.
I hate the fake civility that inspired it and the endorsed it.
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 11:55:56 AM PDT
by buhdydharma on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:02:13 PM PDT
by lisastar on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:31:12 PM PDT
You made the space between my ears hurt!!!!
by buhdydharma on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:34:23 PM PDT
wide narrow
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