Daily Kos

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  •  I'm Told (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Izixs, wystler, mijita, barath, Universal

    Grinnell puts on their brochures as a selling point.

    Come to colleg in Iowa, your vote will matter.

    "two psychics pass each other on the street, one says to the other 'you're doing alright, how am i?'"

    by Edgar08 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:55:36 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Good, everyone's vote should matter. (21+ / 0-)

      None of us, good Dems, would like to disenfranchise any students.  Or are you suggesting, we should?

    •  What in the world is wrong with that? (16+ / 0-)

      Hillary's supporters are sounding less and less Democratic by the minute.  

      •  This Isn't About Being Inclusive (0+ / 0-)

        If Obama and his supporters cared about Democracy they wouldn't have hidden behind "It's the rules" when other states asked for the same voting rights that Iowa has.

        "two psychics pass each other on the street, one says to the other 'you're doing alright, how am i?'"

        by Edgar08 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:26:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  it seems... (5+ / 0-)

          that an implicit rant against the Democratic Party and it's primary procedures is not, in fact, on topic, with respect to this diary. It seems, further, that such a topic is not remotely valid as a defense of Clinton's smears of Obama on this issue- students have a right to vote in the state they attend school. Clinton is not arguing that having students vote in their state of origin is broadening the primary process... she's arguing (wrongly) that they don't belong in the Iowa caucus. The fact that her position (and yours) are self-serving seems to be the most revealing evidence at hand regarding "exclusivity."

          If it helps Clinton, then we're all for it!

          •  It Sure Is Valid (0+ / 0-)

            If we're discussing who can and can't vote/caucus in a Primary it's perfectly valid to point out we already exclude 90% of the rest of the country.

            "two psychics pass each other on the street, one says to the other 'you're doing alright, how am i?'"

            by Edgar08 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:49:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  the primary system is broken... (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              kyril, BlueGenes, cybrestrike

              and should be reformed... but then, your post here is disingenuous. If Clinton sweeps February states through her famous national lead, Iowa and New Hampshire will be a forgotten memory. Your worry is that the early 4 states selected by the DNC will sway voter opinion away based upon media response.

              What- inevitability is all well and good until it seems to be less in your favor?

              Each candidate has been running on the rules in place this cycle- target the primary states. As has been documented before, many have been targeting those states a long time in the past. I ask for the candidates and the party to do something to make the system of selecting the nominee more selective, but a candidate doesn't get to change the rules 90% of the way through the game, not when he or she has exploited them so readily.

              •  Not Disingenuous (0+ / 0-)

                Of course I agree with you reform is called for.

                It's a fact that early voting influences late voting.

                If it wasn't a fact, this whole thing wouldn't even be an issue.

                Why shouldn't the out of state kids just vote in their home states?  Do you want to even try to answer that question?

                What's the difference?  Aren't their votes in their home states just as important to Obama as they are in in Iowa?

                "two psychics pass each other on the street, one says to the other 'you're doing alright, how am i?'"

                by Edgar08 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:35:52 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  why? (5+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  wu ming, steve04, Tonedevil, kyril, BlueGenes
                  1. because they are Iowa residents
                  1. because it's more effective to get students motivated and involved in the process in the company of their peers (i.e. the voting drives will result in a larger net voting public than voting absentee).
                  1. because, as has been pointed out several times, some of them will not be ABLE to vote at all if they do not vote in Iowa.
                  •  Uh (0+ / 0-)

                    1.  If they were residents they wouldn't be paying out of state tuition.  
                    1.  You can get kids involved in other states by letting all states vote at the same time.
                    1.  That should be fixed, too.

                    "two psychics pass each other on the street, one says to the other 'you're doing alright, how am i?'"

                    by Edgar08 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:08:54 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  BS. (7+ / 0-)

                      If they were residents they wouldn't be paying out of state tuition.

                      Residency for tuition purposes has absolutely nothing to do with residency for voting purposes (or taxpaying purposes or driver's license purposes or any other purpose). Residency for tuition purposes is determined under a set of criteria specifically intended to prevent students who have not paid taxes to the state from getting the benefits of subsidized in-state tuition. That is all. Students are residents for every purpose other than tuition, including voting, and the Supreme Court and Iowa law agrees with me.

                      During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

                      by kyril on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:34:45 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Funny (0+ / 0-)

                        When Clinton points out they haven't paid taxes in Iowa, everyone has a hissy fit.

                        When you point it out, I guess it's OK.

                        Either way, all states vote on the same day, this isn't an issue.  Until all states vote on the same day, people have a right to discuss where the lines are drawn.

                        "two psychics pass each other on the street, one says to the other 'you're doing alright, how am i?'"

                        by Edgar08 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:38:50 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I point it out (3+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          arielle, Kimball, cybrestrike

                          because it is, in fact, the justification for the requirement for residency for tuition purposes, because public universities give a lower rate for state tuition which is subsidized by state taxes. Voting is not tuition. Voting is a right of all citizens, taxpaying or not, and of everybody who lives in a state and is of legal age, taxpaying or not.

                          Look, I'm all for a national primary. And it is terrible that whole states have been disenfranchised, and that deserves a series of diaries too, along with some more substantial action. Go ahead and organize it, I'll be right there supporting you; there's nothing more fundamental to a democratic system of government than voting rights. However, just because you've been disenfranchised doesn't give you an excuse to encourage disenfranchisement of other legal voters. If anything, it should get you more worked up - you should be on their side, because you know what it's like.

                          During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

                          by kyril on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:51:25 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Ok Then (0+ / 0-)

                            Go ahead and organize it, I'll be right there supporting you; there's nothing more fundamental to a democratic system of government than voting rights.

                            It was organized in Florida earlier this year.

                            I probably missed you supporting it.

                            "two psychics pass each other on the street, one says to the other 'you're doing alright, how am i?'"

                            by Edgar08 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:57:40 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            •  Link? (1+ / 0-)

                              Recommended by:
                              Kimball

                              I'll see if I can send some help their way. The whole primary issue has me seriously concerned, and it needs more play here. The idea that whole states should be left out of the process is indefensible, and the fact that one is a critical swing state and the other is an important purple state that defeated Bush in both elections makes it strategically ill-advised too. Of course, it's too late to get a national primary, so there's no really good answer this election cycle, but at least for this election we need to get the state parties to hold a primary the DNC will recognize.

                              During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

                              by kyril on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 12:07:40 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                    •  voting residency is not tuition residency (5+ / 0-)

                      colleges tend to have draconian residency requirements to squeeze those out of state dollars out of them.

                      voting's a different deal entirely.

                      surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

                      by wu ming on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:36:13 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  You're on the wrong side of the constitution (4+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      arielle, Tonedevil, kyril, Kimball

                      as interpreted by the Supreme Court of the United States.  That's enough to make up my mind.

                      "... politics has been divided between two types of people: those who want more people to vote, and those who want fewer people to vote." - Sen. Kerry

                      by cdsmith on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:38:47 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Uh.. (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      Tonedevil

                      Where the fuck do you get off deciding where people can vote and where they can't?

                      "Cynicism is a sorry wisdom." - Barack Obama

                      by BlueGenes on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 12:07:57 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

    •  Good (8+ / 0-)

      Colleges and corporations always use their states' positive attributes to recruit students and employees.  Like the beach?  Come to CA or FL.  Low taxes?  NV.  Low cost of living?  TX.  Big city amenities?  NY, IL, CA, etc.  Candidates flocking here every four years to kiss your ass?  IA.  They'd be stupid not to recruit on what may be the state's biggest selling point (along with friendly people and low cost of living).

      If there really were a radical black Muslim country-club elitist in the race, I'd probably vote for him just for novelty's sake.

      by cardinal on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:25:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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