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that is a red herring.
This is all about Clinton wanting to discourage people who would vote for her opponent from participating.
Just like the Alberto Gonzalez DOJ.
"[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.
by Geekesque on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:57:42 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Obama is exciting!!! Clinton---a Buzz-Kill!!!
by serrano on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:00:12 AM PDT
do for Obama's events----just a guess here----but I bet that Clinton wouldn't be trying to disenfranchise student voters. What I don't understand is--- why does she persist with this when what she's saying is clearly not the law in Iowa? My friend in Grinnell tried to get in to see Obama there yesterday but doors were closed---filled to capacity way before start time. Students overwhemingly support Obama. Do you spose this is the real reason behind Clinton's sudden interest in curbing the youth vote?
by dotster on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:07:41 AM PDT
Catholic, white woman over 50 for OBAMA!! (endorsed 12/06)
by mjd in florida on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:11:48 AM PDT
ones in the zoo. Umm... just saying. Like cause there are no woods in the zoo. Oh maybe the more progressive ones but...well the more progressive zoos not the more progressive bears. I just don't think bears are very political that's all. I mean, that would be silly.
Where was I??
"You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"
by newfie on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:18:21 AM PDT
by mjd in florida on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:28:53 AM PDT
the biggest threat facing America.
I know this because Stephen Colbert told me.
Want superdelegates who listen? Rita Moran for DNC. We need your support!
by Eddie in ME on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:39:15 AM PDT
I'm from small town Alaska originally. In my experience bears like to poop on the road. Don't ask me why, they just do.
by nisleib on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:43:13 AM PDT
And short fenceposts.
Why, why, why?
I will give 100 'recs' to any Kossack that can answer this question, which has been bugging me for years (since a friend pointed it out to me at a local dog park)
by MyOwnClone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:45:23 AM PDT
I thought that my labs pooped on the bottom of my sneakers. That is until my wife pointed out that: 1. I don't like to clean the yard and 2. I don't watch where I'm stepping.
ps. I secretly still think they are pooping on the bottom of my shoes. Don't tell my wife.
by newfie on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:53:55 AM PDT
Be open minded to shitting on short fenceposts, thats all im sayin....
"Cynicism is a sorry wisdom." - Barack Obama
by BlueGenes on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:40:03 AM PDT
The question is: why not?
Determining whether or not this comment is snark is left as an exercise for the reader.
by aztecraingod on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:52:30 PM PDT
because then they can see it better. Nothing worse than stepping on sh!t in your bear feet.
by newfie on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:54:47 AM PDT
reminds me of the Eddie Murphy joke about the bear pooping while talking to the bunny.
by nisleib on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:04:36 AM PDT
... is about the only one I'm willing to partake of in this particular diary.
And, btw, what is the Eddie Murphy joke? Tried to Google it, no luck.
by MyOwnClone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:11:24 AM PDT
But then again - I am typically predisposed to talking sh!t. Never outgrew that phase.
by newfie on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:14:33 AM PDT
I've been out of diapers since 1965, and I still think it's hilarious.
OT: I was setting up a garage sale this summer, and looked at the surface of my dining-room table in full sunlight. Etched indelibly into the wood, clearly, was the word, "POOPIE". It was in my handwriting, from a long-ago game of Cranium or Scattergories or some such, when I was laughing so hard I wrote the word really hard.
by MyOwnClone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:20:23 AM PDT
Bear is pooping in the woods.
He sees an bunny nearby. Asks the bunny, "when you go #2, does the shit stick to your fur?"
Bunny says, "Nope."
So the bear grabs the bunny and uses it to wipe himself.
Political Compass: -7.13, -5.13
by thiroy on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:28:45 AM PDT
Students overwhemingly support Obama. Do you spose this is the real reason behind Clinton's sudden interest in curbing the youth vote?
Of course it is. It's the same reason Republicans curb the Black vote. She's just going back to her Republican Goldwater girl roots.
If I were running in this election, I'd be for change too. - George W. Bush
by William Domingo on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 04:14:14 PM PDT
and purges. When live in a state to go to school that seems to me to be your primary residence. She had no problem establishing a iffy residency in another state when she ran for senator in NY.
"And if my thought-dreams could be seen They'd probably put my head in a guillotine" Bob Dylan
by shaharazade on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:24:00 AM PDT
by inclusiveheart on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:54:52 AM PDT
link
on the history of this issue. It doesn't just seem like voter suppression; it is voter suppression.
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
by kyril on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:10:31 AM PDT
One Million Strong --- Join up!
by psericks on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:42:57 AM PDT
this issue so far. Kyril's diary is a must-read.
by GN1927 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 04:03:20 PM PDT
by shaharazade on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 05:50:29 PM PDT
Since, last I looked, there were 48 other States besides Illinois. I'm pretty sure my home state does not have reciprocity with Iowa.
The problem is what's to stop an out of state student from caucusing in Iowa, then casting a ballot in their home state's primary? (Voting early and often might be acceptable in Illinois, especially in the Chicago area, but it is discouraged in the rest of the country)
"The time is long overdue to stop gullibly accepting the left's vision of itself as idealistic, rather than self-aggrandizing." - Dr. Thomas Sowell
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:00:21 AM PDT
the Clinton folks are worried about.
by Geekesque on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:01:14 AM PDT
for the opportunity to commit voter fraud on a massive scale.
Has this been a problem in past years? Or other states that also allow students to vote/caucus. This system has been in place for quite some time.
In the face of impossible odds, people who love this country can change it.
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:14:01 AM PDT
I could either vote absentee in my home state, or not vote. Pretty simple.
I suppose that, in your view, fraud is okay if it's on a small scale?
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:16:06 AM PDT
Is the only thing keeping you from voting twice your sense that it would be hard to pull off?
I attended college out of state, and voted in my college town during my senior year. Should I have not been allowed to do that? My parents had moved away from my high school town and I had no intention of ever going back there. I had only been to their new town (and state) once, for two days. I'm not even sure whether it would have been possible for me to vote there. Not so simple. Not everyone's situation is as straightforward as yours.
Does that change anything for you? Should the law try to take into account all these possibilities and provide a set option for each one or is better to just let each student decide?
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:22:38 AM PDT
If not, then you most certainly should not have been allowed to vote in that state's elections. You would have to take up your extenuating circumstances with your state's board of elections, just like every other citizen.
Does being a student grant a person some super special rights to vote wherever they please not afforded to any other citizens?
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:39:31 AM PDT
They can choose where they reside. It isn't as if Delay really resided in Texas now is it? At least a college student ACTUALLY lives there.
"Make it stop. Please, make it stop."
by Democrat on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:46:33 AM PDT
To determine the threshold for residency. One can choose where they reside only after they have met a state's residency requirements.
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:51:37 AM PDT
a certain type of voter is eligible, the candidates should respect that, don't you think? Rather than trying to drum up public sentiment against that segment of the voting public?
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:55:23 AM PDT
that is eligible is one that is a resident (i.e. an Iowan) But, if Iowa is willing to let any Tom, Dick, or Mary caucus in their state, regardless of residency, then that's Iowa's business.
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:02:46 AM PDT
that students can decide on the day of the caucus that they are Iowa residents, register, and caucus, that's their business, right?
And I assume we can all trust that Iowa has some system in place for dealing with all the various contingencies, since they've done this for a long time?
Which is why I think its kind of BS for any of our candidates to imply that maybe Iowa law is wrong, or that there is confusion about the law where there isn't any, just because more college voters hurts his/her electoral chances.
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:23:00 AM PDT
The only requirement for being a citizen for the purpose of voting is having a physical address and 30 days residency. We establish different rules for some services, but this is settled law nationally. Ask Alan Keyes.
by ArchPundit on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:50:52 AM PDT
No durational residency requirement.10-day registration requirement. In-person registration by 5 P.M., 11 days before election date, 10 days for statewide primary and general elections.
Residency requirements for voting
by pgm 01 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:24:55 PM PDT
registration people said I should, I'm sure. But you make establishing residency in a state sound hard. It is typically more like declaring residency - bring in a piece of mail, fill out a form and you're done, yes?
Downthread, someone posted that this issue of students voting where they attend school went all the way to the Supreme Court in the late 70s. But I guess you and Senator Clinton know better.
By the way, I don't think my circumstance were all that "extenuating." People's lives are complicated, which is why the law gives students the choice.
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:54:12 AM PDT
But you still have to do it, right?
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:04:33 AM PDT
But I trust that Iowa (and every state) has already solved this problem so that I don't have to solve it here on Daily Kos.
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:24:27 AM PDT
by jqmilktoast on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 07:39:17 AM PDT
by kyril on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:11:42 AM PDT
is a far, far, far lower bar than getting college residency and the tuition reduction.
students play by the same rules that every other citizens do. usually it's something like living 2 weeks in the state before filling out paperwork.
we are citizens of america, not iowa.
surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat
by wu ming on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:27:01 AM PDT
Iowa law says so. Don't like it? Tough shit. Sell your suppression tactics where else. Maybe you and Katherine Harris can open a consulting firm.
My candidate voted to ban the use of cluster bombs on kids. Did yours?
by clonecone on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 01:21:47 PM PDT
I was in exactly the same situation - right before my senior year, my parents had moved to a new state. I had no residence of any kind in the state where I grew up, and I didn't see how it was appropriate to vote in the state that my parents had just moved to. I'd spent the previous summer in my college state. So I voted there.
by nojonojo on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:00:50 AM PDT
that's when the Supreme Court decided that college students have the right to vote where they go to school, if they "establish residency." Rules re: establishing residency vary from state to state; maybe you went to school in a state where it was difficult to establish residency if your parents were paying for your education and lived in another state?
by jennifer poole on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:32:13 AM PDT
And by establishing residency in my college state, I would no longer have residency in my home state. Either way I get to vote once.
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:35:25 AM PDT
is talking about voting twice, we're talking about voting once. If any town clerk worth their salt is doing their job, they'd be reporting to the previous place the person was registered to vote that they re-registered elsewhere, thus wiping their name from the rolls in the hometown.
by Eddie in ME on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:41:45 AM PDT
with voting?
You can't just bring facts into this discussion out of nowhere. Are you bringing these facts in from out of state? Or do these facts actually pay taxes in Iowa?
by BlueGenes on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:52:30 AM PDT
you think that I actually have to pay taxes to vote. Gee, why not re-institute poll taxes?
by nojonojo on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:03:09 AM PDT
Didn't read the post well enough either, didn't notice that it was tongue-in-cheek. :P
by nojonojo on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:39:33 PM PDT
Three quarters of students have jobs. That means three quarters of Iowa students likely also have jobs. That includes the out-of-state ones.
Secondly, any out-of-state resident will obviously be paying sales tax in Iowa.
And finally, I wasn't aware it said anywhere in the Constitution that you had to pay taxes in order to vote. Does that mean that anyone who receives an Earned Income Credit is disqualified from voting?
I bet the Republicans would love it if things were that way.
by Eddie in ME on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:27:51 AM PDT
snarking you ;) I pretty sure facts don't pay taxes anywhere.
by brklyngrl on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:36:44 AM PDT
God, I hope so :p
by Eddie in ME on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:57:13 AM PDT
by BlueGenes on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 12:36:09 PM PDT
I totally skimmed your post.
Got any good BBQ sauce to go with my crow?
by Eddie in ME on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 01:55:49 PM PDT
by aztecraingod on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:59:20 PM PDT
Nobody votes twice -- except somebody intent on committing a felony. Some students prefer to establish residency in the college town where they might easily be spending 8 years getting a higher degree, and working, maybe even getting married and having kids, instead of whatever town their parents happen to be living in. seems fair to me.
by jennifer poole on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:56:07 AM PDT
in the late 1970s and I voted there.
Except for Washington, DC, people were expected to vote where they lived most of the year.
by SingleVoter on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:57:58 AM PDT
I went to college in Iowa and students could choose to register there. I used to register them. It's simply that you cannot vote in both places. This is no different from people who move from one jurisdiction to another and happens literally every day.
by ArchPundit on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:49:19 AM PDT
You sound like a republican. Try "voter suppression"
Here in NJ, the law is clear. Students can register to vote at their dormitory residence or their home address (even if it's in another state).
Blue Jersey. All the news that slips from print.
by Scott in NJ on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:23:58 PM PDT
what's to stop an out of state student from caucusing in Iowa, then casting a ballot in their home state's primary?
Nothing, and nor should there be.
Primaries are statewide elections, not a national contest. If two states hold elections on different days, nothing should stop a person from voting in both elections if they meet the state's registration requirements.
What's to stop students from submitting untruthful registrations? The same thing that stops all fraudulent registrations: penalties for false registration
by underwhelm on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:44:43 AM PDT
I don't think it is within the letter or spirit of the law to vote in different primaries. That really isn't at the heart of the argument here.
This is really rather simple. Or at least it was until Hillhill muddied the water (thanx).
If you are a college student, you get to choose to vote in the primary where you have previous residence, or retain the option to declare residence where you are going to school. That's it. Simple, eh?
by BlueGenes on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:56:01 AM PDT
But......................
by jqmilktoast on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:07:09 AM PDT
I live in Iowa today. I plan to move to Minnesota in 2008. If Minnesota holds a statewide election after I'm a resident there, I can and will vote, notwithstanding the fact that I was earlier a resident of Iowa and caucused.
My real question is: what does Ms. Clinton believe she's accomplishing with this line? Does she really believe she can woo in-state caucus goers on the single issue of xenophobia for college students? Sufficient to compensate for the inevitable college student backlash?
by underwhelm on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:52:16 AM PDT
but it is backfiring for sure.
Shame on her. For someone who has built firewalls against 'right-wing memes', the idea of voting rights being tied to paying taxes id f**king disgusting.
I wondered where she voted when she went to college?
I'm still pretty sure you're not allowed to vote in more than one primary, but like I said, I am not a Lawyer.
Anyone planning on viting twice should probably consult a real lawyer first, im pretty sure its illegal.
by BlueGenes on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 12:40:19 PM PDT
Looking beyond Iowa, beyond the primaries, to the GE.
Bush Administration: Proving the saying, "You can fool most of the people some of the time, and 30% 24% 19% all the time."
by Helpless on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 01:42:36 PM PDT
That's the only sense I can make of it as well.
... it's sort of putting the cart before the horse.
by underwhelm on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 02:49:33 PM PDT
I have the distinction of being called a media whore by Courtney Love. -Maynard J. Keenan
by arielle on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 06:17:57 AM PDT
As with any other person who switches their residence. Iowa is supposed to send a notification to the previous jurisdiction that the person has registered.
In practice, many places leave people on the rolls even if this happens so this is no different from someone who moves.
by ArchPundit on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:48:01 AM PDT
"Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. You've got to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight." --Bruce Cockburn, "Lovers In A Dangerous
by AustinCynic on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 12:31:20 PM PDT
wide narrow
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