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by chapter1 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 04:46:21 AM PDT
When/why/how is Tolkien "RedState-ish?"
Fifteen is my limit on schnitzengruben. - Sheriff Bart
by TigerMom on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:01:04 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
(And keep in mind this is coming from a BIG Tolkien fan.)
He seems to get quoted there a lot. And some elements are very Red-statish: the Grand Struggle to rid the world of Evil by military means, the notion that the enemy is absolutely evil not even worth trying to negotiate with, the emphasis on rigid hierarchies (who elected Elrond?), etc
Here's a very interesting (and rather harsh) criticism of Tolkien's world by science fiction great (and occaisional kossack, and brilliant political commenter) David Brin.
OK, now I've hijacked my own thread, insulted one of my favorite authors, and its not even lunch time.
by chapter1 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:20:37 AM PDT
I found out that it was you...
If you see me behind you..don't assume I'm following you. We just happen to be going the same way and if you slow down, I'll run over your ass.
by TKH on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:22:10 AM PDT
Great author, but he won't mind being criticized. I have a lot of Brin's work too.
Writing and Poetry at My Left One.
by socialist butterfly on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:01:47 AM PDT
I hadn't read that before.
by Tracker on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:16:11 AM PDT
lot of good and credible points in that essay and I agree with quite a few. Especially concerning the Romantics. In fact that is why I often argue against the possibility of Nazism happening here; it's simply not our romantic tradition and the aesthetics of nationalism that are used as propaganda to motivate and dupe the population.
However we DO have a different romantic tradition that entails more of Calvinism and the shining city on the hill of American myth. I am remembering what that good senator wrote in the 40s about when fascism comes to the US, it will be carrying a cross.
But I do disagree with some of his points. I believe he ignores Tolkiens root material, one of the major ones is the Siegfried myth. Most academics nowadays concur that the myth was born out of the genocide of the Burgundians by the Huns in 468. It was such a traumatic experience for the Germanic tribes that the myth was born. This is also a case where the myth was not born or written by the victors.
I take the other side of the argument and defend Tolkien as that Tolkien was trying to write a form of Saga in prose. The Huns were an asiatic nomadic people so they were an 'Other' of the time. As I argue that Tolkien is writing from the Germanic point of view, of course his orcs and easterlings are going to have similarities with the historical as well as the mythological Huns. Yes, Tolkien was a romantic of sorts, but I do not believe he was a romantic in context of his contemporary world but rather a romantic in the sense of trying to go back and write, in prose as well as some of his poetry, as if he was a story teller of those times.
I am sorry for contributing to the hijack, but I am myself working on my doctorate in Germanic Saga with a little comparative study into Beowulf and the Anglo-Saxon. So this question interests me greatly.
Nor think that I am discounting Brin; without opposing viewpoints, there would be no academic discourse.
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 05:32:58 AM PDT
Shouldn't we let them know that we consider this a downpayment on the future. That this is a step forward but we expect the 2009 Energy Bill to be even better!
Striving to be Energy Smart to Energize America.
by A Siegel on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:43:16 AM PDT
Should probably have added this earlier. Anyway, I fully agree that this is just one step.. we desperately need to take many more.
by chapter1 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:50:41 AM PDT
well, do you agree with my thought that this is the Energy version of S-CHIP, if the Democratic Party / leadership / and us handle it well? That the President will face either a choice to sign the bill or raise serious issue as to why he is vetoing something for the good of America.
by A Siegel on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:11:27 AM PDT
I really hope it works out that way. I hope that the pressure from Americans will be strong enough to make this follow an S-CHIP-like script.. and I hope our community will play our part in making that happen.
But Bush might not veto this bill, because it may not survive a Senate filibuster (or may survive in a watered down form). So I'd argue that dealing with a veto is a diary for another day. I think that right now our focus should be on supporting the Dems to encourage them to fight off a filibuster, and on chipping away at opposition to Bill among swing-voting Reps and (especially!) Senators.
by chapter1 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:20:25 AM PDT
when we get a true Democratic majority(60 in the Senate!)to help our D president whoever it is. Thats up to us kossacks!
McCain already vetoes every environmental bill !
by dotcommodity on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 12:17:33 PM PDT
especially after the diarist wrote this [emphasis mine]:
Increased CAFE standards 35 mpg by 2020. This is a lot lower than I would have liked, but it is the first increase in decades.
35 mpg by 2020????
I have a 1995 Toyota Celica that I bought in 1994. It gets 37 mpg. It's not a hybrid. It's a 4-passenger (helps to be small) 5-speed manual, but it's got a lot of zip. As long as I can bend over and get into it, I'm keeping it.
News to lawmakers and auto industry: Some of us won't buy a car -- certainly not a new car -- until the changes are sufficient to permanently lessen the footprint we make on this earth -- in a real way.
35 mpg? Sheesh.
But, chapter1, you're right. We should be grateful for what we did get. But sometimes I just gotta shake my head and sigh . . .
"You can count on Americans to do the right thing after they've tried everything else." -- Winston Churchill
by bleeding heart on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 09:15:18 AM PDT
from a local Chevy dealer, saying 'you may own one of the used cars we are looking for- ONE DAY ONLY! Well,this car happens to be a Neon,which is a POS car,but it runs and it is paid for long, long ago. Of course, this made me mad and I used their little prepaid envelope to inquire WHEN exactly, would they be coming up with a 50MPG vehicle, like the Honda Accord that one of my buddies owned circa 1977? HMMPH. Looking for used POS's because their lots are overflowing w/Stupid Ugly Vehicles? Cry me a river. /rant
"Cui bono?"
by shycat on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:51:47 AM PDT
by shycat on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 10:53:59 AM PDT
37 mpg. Every single fill up (well, if it drops, it's a reminder to CHECK THE TIRES!!).
I've been thinking of a really simple two-point vow for those environmentally-inclined in 2008:
Everything I've read indicates to me that just these two steps will have a significant impact on the national energy picture, and they're nothing complicated, just two easy actions.
"You measure a democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -Abbie Hoffman
by Uthaclena on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 06:16:16 PM PDT
Few will have the greatness to bend history; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation. RFK 1966
I called Sen. Martinez and Congressman Bill Young. Neither aide knew their boss's stand on the bill. Now to call Bill Nelson!
A politician looks forward only to the next election. A statesman looks forward to the next generation. THOMAS JEFFERSON
by Wanda517 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 11:29:50 AM PDT
and in addition to complimenting you on your fantastic content, I also want to thank you for your excellent use of bolding text. As someone who constantly reads dKos while having a migraine (including now), making your diary so perfectly skimmable is a huge favor to me since it hurts to try to read large chunks of text word for word.
Anti-McCain T-shirts - Get 'em here!
by OrangeClouds115 on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:42:32 PM PDT
by Minc on Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 08:51:35 PM PDT
wide narrow
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