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  •  There's no delusion . . . (5+ / 0-)

    [...] the DLC is a group of policy wonks "who allowed Bill Clinton's victories to convince them that the Third Way is political genius that represents the one true path to enduring Democratic success." Ten years later, they're still convinced of that.

    . . . like self-delusion.  

    I heard Dean debate Reed on a talk show once, and could only imagine how hard Dean had to work at fighting back the howls of laughter when Reed essentially argued that the DLC was responsible for the only Democratic president since Carter.  Dean did wonder alound, though, whether Reed was, in 2003 when the talk show aired, taking credit for all those Democratic victories in congress, too.

    It's amazing of what the human mind is capable of convincing itself.

    •  Interesting Terry McAuliffe comment (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GOTV

      McAuliffe wrote that the Democratic Party fell apart in the 1990s because party leaders relied on Bill Clinton's charisma. He didn't explain why no one brought up the party's inattention to blocking and tackling.

      Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

      by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 05:26:13 PM PDT

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    •  DLC didn't propel Bill Clinton (5+ / 0-)

      Clinton was a plurality president not a majority president who won DESPITE his previous association with the DLC.  Clinton's numbers shot up when he campaigned as an FDR Democrat + abandoned the DLC playbook when the elections were nearing.

      All that the DLC did was put Newt Gingrich in charge of the House and GWB in the White House.  Shame on them.

      I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

      by davefromqueens on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 05:37:29 PM PDT

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      •  It was the other way with Gore (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        corvo

        His acceptance speech at the convention sounded a populist message, attacking HMOs and oil and insurance companies. By October, his message was muted. Who got to him?

        Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

        by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 05:43:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  That's not true (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Dump Terry McAuliffe, pseudopod

        This argument is posted here every week, stating that it was the "DLC's fault" that the Democrats lost Congres in 1994. That is simply not true. The Democrats lost the Congress in 1994 due to these three factors:

        1. The 1990 redistricting:

        The 1900 redistricting resulted in the creation of minority-majority districts. These districts packed in populations that were 70%-80% minority in some places. These districts often looked like snakes, parasites, weird shapes, and intestines. They often ran across for hundreds of miles, connecting disparate populations whose only connection was race--cities and towns that had no real similiar geopolitical interests.

        The results were that many white Democrats ended up with districts that were more Republican. The creation of one or two heavily Democratic districts basically bleached the surrounding districts into conservative white Republican bastions.  Some of them lost in 1994, while others barely held on.

        1. The south's realingment to the GOP:

        Secondly, in the late 1980s and the early 1990s, the final wave of "old southern Democrats" left over from the Solid South era finally retired or died. Democrats like Claude Pepper, Charles Bennett, Jamie Whitten, Sonny Montgomery, William Natcher, Butler C. Derrick, Earl Hutto, Jack Brooks, Don Bevill, and Dante Fascell finally died or retired. They had been able to hold onto their districts even though the demographics had turned steadily Republican. What kept them in office was their own popularity even though their districts had been voting Republican for most offices for decades. When these districts finally became open they turned Republican, even though they should have flipped as early as the 1950s and the 1960s. What kept them Democratic was the popularity of the incumbents.

        1. The first two years of the Clinton adminstration:

        The first two years of the Clinton administration did not turn out well. The failed healthcare plan, Whitewater, Paula Jones, Somalia, the Branch Davidan siege, the Assualt weapons ban, the budget bill that had tax increases, environmental laws, the House Banking Scandal, and the death of Vince Foster all led to the GOP takeover. Those scandals, both real and imagined, turned the voters en masse against the Clintons.

        So it wasn't the DLC's "fault" that the Democrats lost Congres in 1994. It was due primarily more to the 1990 redistricting and the long-term political realignment of the south to the GOP. Those two factors, plus Clinton's dismal first two years, turned the Congress to the Republicans. There were many more compelling causes at hand there.

        •  Well argued (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          blueoasis

          My biggest complaint about the DLC is that it seems to be trapped in a time warp, where it's still 1992 and the political ghost of Michael Dukakis is about to fly out of the crypt.

          Under George W. Bush, the political center of gravity has lurched to the right.  Job One should be restoring the status quo ante, not accommodating the Bushies.

          Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

          by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 06:00:18 PM PDT

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        •  Mostly agree (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Dump Terry McAuliffe

          Another major problem the Democrats had was ineffectiveness. Their House and Senate majorities looked pretty solid, but they were internally weak. You still had a number of conservative or overly cautious Democrats who wouldn't go along on many of Clinton's more progressive proposals. This gave the public the sense that Congress couldn't or wouldn't get anything done. So, voters decided to give Republicans a shot.

          •  Leadership got arrogant, too (0+ / 0-)

            Jim Wright was an awful spokesperson for House Democrats. What voters didn't realize at the time was that Gingrich would be worse and that DeLay would be worse still.

            Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

            by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 06:33:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  He was right (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Dump Terry McAuliffe

      The DLC played an instrument role in making Clinton the only Democratic president since Carter. I no longer support the DLC, but I used to. The organization once had an important role.

      The DLC was needed back in the late 1980s. It sought to replace what had become a party structure incapable of winning presidential elections. The DLC made the Democratic Party attractive again to working class and middle class white suburbanities who had defected to support Nixon, Reagan, and Bush I. The DLC helped reposition the party to win those voters back, who were convinced that the post-1968 Democratic Party was more concerned about the needs of innercity minorities, especially blacks, and wanted to only offer them higher taxes for social programs of little benefit to them.

      If the DLC's mandate was to make the Democratic Party attractive to white suburbanites again, it acheived that goal. However, in the Bush era, the DLC failed to adjust to the new political environment. It has become in recent years what it sought to replace: a party structure incapable of winning national elections.

      So while I no longer support the DLC, I do believe that it made the Democratic Party attractive again to the "Reagan Democrats" who left the party after 1968. The problem is that it has been unable to make the party attractive to voters in the current era, and that's why I support Dean's strategy now.

      •  Ross Perot (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dkmich, corvo, blueoasis

        was more responsible for getting Clinton elected than the DLC, and I severe doubt the DLC did anything to get Clinton elected that he didn't figure out for himself.

        •  I would say that DLC brought back (0+ / 0-)

          white suburbanities, and that is why Democrats now can carry CA, NJ, PA, IL, CT, and MI in presidential races.

        •  Right. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Dump Terry McAuliffe

          Clinton didn't win a majority of votes either time, and (as I've said before) he had awfully easy Rethug opponents: a notorious failure commonly referred to as "wimp" (in 1992) and a corpse (in 1996).

        •  Perot, I'd say... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          mcfly

          ...equally hurt Clinton and Bush. You had anti-free trade and budget hawk conservatives who would never have voted for a Democrat abandon Bush for Perot. But, at the same time, on the left, you had people opposed to free trade and people who just couldn't stand Clinton's personality who supported Perot, instead. Without Perot in the race, I think Clinton would have won with about 51-52% of the vote.

      •  I'd give more credit... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Dump Terry McAuliffe, mcfly

        ...to Clinton's populist approach in 1992. The country was in a recession and Clinton definitely ran to the left on economic issues, but he also had a lot of pro-middle class populism. I don't think it was his embrace of corporate-friendly policies and free trade that won over middle class voters. It was more his support of education, health care, and reducing the budget deficit that won over middle class voters.

        There was also somewhat of an ideological shift in the suburbs. Suburbs were once a bastion of both anti-government fiscal conservatism and social conservatism as well. But, as time went on and as suburbs grew and became more diverse, things changed. A lot more suburbanites began to realize that good roads, good public transit, and good schools aren't free and they got rid of their reflexive hatred of taxes. Meanwhile, as suburbs became more diverse, they also became more socially liberal as well.

        •  You're right about the suburbs (0+ / 0-)

          When I moved here (Canton, MI), it was the exurbs: Reagan did even better here than he did nationwide. It was also a whitey-white community. Now its voting patterns, at least at the head of the ticket, are consistent with statewide numbers; and we've seen a big influx of Arabs and Muslims as well as South Asians, especially people of Indian ancestry. There are also voters in the 18-25 age group who are horrified by the Republican stance on sexual issues and Iraq.

          Aside to Howard Dean: Please target the 'burbs.

          Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

          by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 07:00:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Similarly... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Dump Terry McAuliffe

            ....I grew up in Fairfax County, Virginia in the 1980s and 1990s and saw all sorts of changes. Back in the 1980s, Democrats who dared to raise taxes were hounded from office. Bush the First swept the county in 1988, I believe. And, on the more micro level, my third grade class voted for Bush over Dukakis 10 to 9. But, as time went on and as the county became more diverse and urbanized, people came to appreciate the good services. By the mid-to-late 1990s, Democrats gained a majority on the Board of Supervisors and have held it ever since. And again, on a more micro level, in 1992, when I was in 7th grade, Clinton not only beat Bush in our mock election, but Perot did, too.

      •  That's what the DLC was SUPPOSE to be. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        seabos84, Andy Lewis

        After 8 years of Clinton, we found out that a new kind of Democrat meant they changed parties.  Clinton sucked up to Reagan's welfare reform and took money from welfare babies while never touching a dime of corporate welfare. Then he sold us a bill of goods on NAFTA.  It passed because he was a Dem, and we trusted him.  If a Republican had been up there giving us the line, we would have known it was a crock of lies.   The Dems did get fixated and stuck on "black and poor".  They pissed off labor and they abandoned the working and middle class. The DLC was right that they needed to come "back" to the center.  Unfortunately, the DLC didn't have a clue where that was.  Apparently they thought it was up Reagans butt somewhere.  

        Republicans don't have 60 votes, and it doesn't seem to bother them one bit.

        by dkmich on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 07:23:39 PM PDT

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