View Story | 365 comments
Comments: Expand Shrink Hide (Always) | Indented Flat (Always)
That is the point.
Only they'll be arguing that Cheney has absolute privilege to declassify Plame's ID.
This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus
by emptywheel on Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 08:31:28 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
then if they prevail legally. For then no classified project or person is safe from unauthorized disclosure. That would enable any president to disclose information for political purposes. If this legal precedent is established the implications of what might follow are chilling.
by jiacinto on Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 08:36:15 PM PDT
What Cheney and Bush (and their staff) will do with this classified information once (if) they leave the White House in 2009.
Does the power to declassify endure with ex-Presidents and Vice Presidents?
by citizen92 on Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 08:45:02 PM PDT
to Paraguay.
"We're all working for the Pharaoh" - Richard Thompson
by mayan on Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 09:39:14 PM PDT
anyways, everything should be done by proper corporations.
There's almost no conceivable damage to the US that hurts these guys' actual interests or the operations and entities they're actually running.
We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"
by Gooserock on Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 09:11:51 PM PDT
This is a good thread, and some good comments posted above (and below). The contradictions of a policy giving the President (and VP?) the right to instantly declassify anything are so great that an eloquent prosecutor (Hode) could blow holes in it by questioning some of the parties to it.
'Mr. Bolten, you are telling me that it is within the purview of the President's authority to release information on atomic weapons to, say, Iran? A yes or now answer, please.'
Knut
by Knut Wicksell on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 05:49:25 AM PDT
legally disproven (or proven). Bush, Cheney, the AG and all of their staff will continue to complicate the situation, and they're betting that none of this will be definitively decided before they're out of office and "old news".
They're also betting Democrats won't make a huge deal out of it because they'll be to focused on the 2008 race by this fall.
Sad thing is, it might be a good bet that they'll get away with it.
I remember a time when the American President was the leader of the free world. ****** Repeat after me: "Neoconservatism has failed America."
by land of the free on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 07:42:05 AM PDT
they'll drag it out & muddy it so it never is legally disproven (or proven).
Victoria Toestin (dammit, Marcy, I can't even type her name properly now) Toensing make the argument for them.
Gore to Richardson to Edwards to ?
by creeper on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 10:52:53 AM PDT
that Cheney has absolute privilege to put the Valerie Plame's life and the lives of everyone in her networks in danger... and not care at all that anyone could be killed because of his actions.
"The way the loser loses will determine whether the winner wins in November." -- Rahm Emanuel
by Newsie8200 on Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 08:39:01 PM PDT
to cover their asses. Sad sumbitches.
by jimreyn on Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 10:10:17 PM PDT
I still find it interesting how all the crap has been pretty much free flowing since about '05.. before that not a peep about any scandles made it out to the public.
by PTK Bear on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 10:15:13 AM PDT
first before I posted below. Fully concur.
My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total. Barbara Jordan 1974
by gchaucer2 on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 04:27:36 AM PDT
loads of bullshit shoveled by this crowd.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
by beemerr90s on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 05:04:06 AM PDT
They are only statistics.
The Republicans are defunding, not defending, America.
by DSPS owl on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 01:24:34 PM PDT
Isn't the Office of the Vice President distinct from the Executive Branch?
At least that's what it argues when it wants to be exempt from reporting requirements that apply to reporting statistics about classification and declassification of documents.
At those times, the OVP is completely independent of the Executive Branch.
However, in this instance, it is asserting itself as virtually identical with the Presidency.
With this crowd, words, offices, the Constitution itself only ever means just precisely what they want them to mean... in any given situation.
Nothing is real. Everything is permissible.
With a maverick like John McCain, who needs a toady?
by Malacandra on Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 09:49:41 PM PDT
It just seems very convenient that a President can sign an executive order giving a VP authority to do things that neither the law nor the Constitution confers on the VP.
You'd think that if the law meant for the VP to have the authority, it'd have said so.
Moreover, how far down the flow chart do you go? Can the POTUS give the Sec. of State or Sec. of Defense authority to declassify? How about the Undersecretaries?
They just do what they want and, then, once they're caught, out will come the old, probably backdated executive order.
"Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove." P.G. Wodehouse
by gsbadj on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 05:36:29 AM PDT
The is a long-established protocol to follow to declassify information. The reason that the legal defense has been "she wasn't covert" as opposed to "it was legal to reveal her covert status" is because the latter defense is so obviously pathetic and, indeed, treasonous. The trouble for any possible prosecutor is that it will carry a lot of weight in court, even if it is political suicide.
The legal defense would be "the President (or Vice President) declassified her covert status". Of course, they would then have to explain why this declassification was never done properly, never relayed to the CIA, what its motivation was, etc., etc.
Don't drink and blog. Think of the children.
by RickD on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 01:18:25 AM PDT
but I think they are trying to defend Cheney's right to insta-declassify the NIE not Plame's covert status. Wouldn't Cheney and Libby have violated IIPA(subsection c) if he claims he declassified Plame's status and then told Libby to spread the information? Subsection c doesn't say the information needs to be classified, just that the information exposes the identity of a covert agent to a person who is not authorized to receive classified information.
by amsterdam on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 02:40:10 AM PDT
Look at Davis' comment. Do you see any mention of the NIE? None.
You see, the NIE is just an alibi for the real authorization that Cheney gave Libby, to leak Plame's ID.
There are many many examples of this, where a Republican conveniently doesn't specify WHAT they're talking about WRT declassification. That's because they want to make the case for the NIE such that it would apply to Plame's status.
by emptywheel on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 04:52:59 AM PDT
I think that would be a dangerous game to play. Right now Cheney seems protected from any legal wrong doing as long as Libby doesn't implicate him. If Cheney would claim that he had declassified Plame's status, wouldn't that mean that he was involved in a pattern of activities to expose the identity of a covert agent? He may have the authority to declassify at will, but in doing so he would have violated IIPA and if at anytime through cooperation of the CIA the government could proof that Plame was a covert agent, Cheney would be implicated no matter what Libby would claim.
by amsterdam on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 05:29:31 AM PDT
He may have the authority to declassify at will, but in doing so he would have violated IIPA and if at anytime through cooperation of the CIA the government could proof that Plame was a covert agent, Cheney would be implicated no matter what Libby would claim.
worth repeating I think.
by KenBee on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 12:13:13 PM PDT
even low information folks can understand the difference between declassifying documents and declassifying information regarding the status of an agent which puts lives at risk.
And, the point is -- well, what is the point? Why declassify info on Plame's status and not others as well. Yes, I already know the answer.
Thanks Marcy for a great diary.
by gchaucer2 on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 04:26:24 AM PDT
Davis' line of questioning - I could easily be wrong - but I got the sense that he was establishing the President's right to declassify because the White House may be getting ready to say that Bush ordered the whole thing - or at least leaving the door open to make that claim in case the investigation gets close enough to do harm to Cheney.
Further along this line of thinking, the fact that there was no internal White House investigation then becomes easily explained; and a pardon for Scooter Libby or even a reversal (maybe) becomes plausibly explained.
I think they are at the point where they are making this up as they go along now. The Cheney defense is extremely plausible, but the Bush defense may be the slam dunk they will use to end this saga. Retreating into the realm of Executive Priviledge is so very BushCo... They really thought they weren't going to get caught.
by inclusiveheart on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 04:51:05 AM PDT
This strategy goes back to Fall 2003, at least, when Libby first claimed Cheney authorized him to leak the NIE.
Their lines of defense were:
by emptywheel on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 04:55:07 AM PDT
Friday and mulling over later I wondered if they were internally contemplating just defaulting right to the President and being done with it all. That is one reason why I was extremely concerned that the process of declassification was not more fully explored during the hearings. The process is the only sticking point for the President. I think we all know that it is highly unlikely that Bush was not fully aware of what was going on. In 2003-2004, they needed Cheney to be the fall guy with the election on the horizon, but now they may be thinking that having Bush waive his magic wand and make it better is their best bet. It is just a guess.
by inclusiveheart on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 05:03:20 AM PDT
he (Cheney) almost by de facto declassified it. I think that is what his argument would be, legally..
Am I wrong Marcy?
Citizen Journalist
by Hummingbird on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 05:03:40 AM PDT
While it is important to nail down the legalities (as an attorney, I appreciate the analysis), perhaps this begs the question that I would like to ask Cheney and his smug henchmen: Even if you had the authority to declassify Plame's covert agent status, why did you do it and more, importantly, why was it necessary to do it without making sure that she knew it was going to be done so that the CIA and she could minimize the damage?
by Santarita on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 09:07:26 AM PDT
by creeper on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 10:59:21 AM PDT
for me probably, but this was reckless endangerment at it's most basic.
by KenBee on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 12:18:15 PM PDT
There is an old saying among lawyers: If you have bad law, argue the facts, if you have bad facts, argue the law, and if you have both head for the bar and order up the martinis. I would say that Icky Vickie Toetapper is probably running up a big bar tab. Her strategy and the Repub strategy as a whole seems to be the "baffle them with bs".
by Santarita on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 05:06:18 PM PDT
Removing the question of whether the President's so-called absolute privilege extends to the Vice President, there are still limits to the privilege.
First, the Executives are sworn to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic; are they going to say that Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame are enemies? How do they prove that these two people were so very dangerous to the welfare of the U.S. that they had a need to avoid all declassification purposes to tackle the immediacy of the threat they allegedly represented? They had weeks and months to deal with any threat they felt; would it not have been reasonable to simply declassify rather than leak? And in hindsight, with Joe Wilson being correct about uranium from Niger, how can they justify any claim that Wilson was a threat?
Second, even insta-declassification must have some follow-up obligation for filing with appropriate bodies that info has been declassified. How is it that the CIA has never seen any declassification documents in regards to Plame's ID? Isn't this rather like the investigation into the leak that never happened per Knodell?
by Rayne on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 05:12:18 AM PDT
If I recall, there was a signing statement that extended some authority to the Vice President that is normally given to the President. Does anyone recall this? And if so, do you recall what the specific authority was?
by WisVoter on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 05:40:27 AM PDT
wide narrow
View Story | 365 comments