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I'm tired of cleaning up your sockpuppets. If banning you for the dozenth time or so time doesn't work, I'm going to start banning your friends who apparently keep encouraging you to do this.
I'm serious, I'm tired of you screwing around with everyone on this site and thinking it's OK or just some living room game. The entirety of the Israel-Palestine conflict is NOT going to be fought in miniature and by proxy on Daily Kos, and certainly not by continually banned members, and if that means that this entire subject becomes off limits merely because of an unending stream of constant sockpuppets, then maybe that's just what needs to happen.
I'm not going to keep cleaning up after you. Your entire side of the argument is in danger of being removed en masse because of you and several other constant sockpuppets who apparently dedicated your lives to feuling it. The next time I remove you, I may very well remove some of the people who consistently recommend your posts too, and you can debate with them on your own damn site as to whether or not it was a bright idea for you to keep coming here.
by Hunter on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 01:13:49 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
Banning and the way it happens here (or anywhere) is only worthy of redicule. Are we in junior highschool, folks?
...do the elites...actually believe that society can be destroyed by anyone except those who lead them? - John Ralston Saul -
by Silverbird on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 02:12:33 PM PDT
um, Kos did. :-)
by Runs With Scissors on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 03:09:09 PM PDT
Will the elite be happy living behind gated communities in the potential meltdown? Peace now. -7.00, -2.92
by mattes on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 04:13:16 PM PDT
Makes me laugh every time I see it.
When McCain talks he sounds like an evil Mr. Rogers.
by clonecone on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 04:14:59 PM PDT
it was a nice and calm name for several days.
but now the site has broken into all chaos again and, alas, i made the mistake of reading some of it.
although i've managed to resist getting involved with most of it.
and i have made a decision. that decision is: emotional maturity is a good thing. and there are some people i've come to realize i'm not going to miss very much if they stay true to their word. which they won't. the drama is just too hard to resist.
maybe the drama is just a way to keep from looking at what's really going on in the world? who knows.
by Runs With Scissors on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 04:20:00 PM PDT
says it is driven by a desire to share the spotlight with the tragedy of life. The optimist says everyone deals with pain in their own way. The realist believes in the law of thirds: 1/3 of everything is great; 1/3 is awful and 1/3 just doesn't matter.
by clonecone on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 04:29:10 PM PDT
it is driven by a desire to share the spotlight with the tragedy of life.
interesting. could be.
whatever's driving it, though ... yeesh! must. not. even. look!
must resist urge to make popcorn and spend the evening watching the spectacle unfold.
by Runs With Scissors on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 04:32:12 PM PDT
complaining want. I DO NOT KNOW WHO IS SHERGALD AND WHO IS NOT!
This is bullshit....collectible punishment is what it is.
And it's ok that jhritz outs people....is she on the "right" side?
AND I don't like be accused of something I have NOT done.
How about if I start writing letters to you every time I get called an anti-semitic, or a moron, or self hating, or the numerous other names I have called? I don't go crying to the FPers.....to "please stop them from stalking me"....or "trolling in my diaries". I have not complained about the horrible hate mail I have gotten from the "Israeli right or wrong crowd".
This is an important issue and it's completely related to the on-going wars in the middle east.
entirety of the Israel-Palestine conflict is NOT going to be fought in miniature and by proxy on Daily Kos.
So is this Markos' decision or one that is being pushed while he is away??
by mattes on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 02:52:18 PM PDT
It's a Zionist plot, I tells ya!
But wait -- doesn't the shergald/Ben Heine/area 51/nativealien/sockpuppet brigade already claim that The Zionists run DKos? Does that make this a Zionist coup and an anti-Zionist coup at the same time?
If Venus is made of ketchup and lions play pinochle, why doesn't the framistan frizzmaz the flomaton?
by zemblan on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 03:08:04 PM PDT
a banned subject...just like Democratic Underground?
Or you think it's a valid subject?
by mattes on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 03:20:08 PM PDT
Are you going to deny that you want this to be a banned subject
Translation: Why do you liberals hate America so much?
by zemblan on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 03:40:35 PM PDT
This is utter bullshit. Hunter is now openly threatening to ban people for posting opinions critical of Israel. He does it based on a criterion they cannot possibly control: whether or not they have uprated some new incarnation of someone Hunter has previously banned. The fact is, of course, that for such a person to post at all they must do so in secret. So no one uprating them could possibly know. Thus, the only way a person can be safe is to not uprate ANY pro-Palestinian comments (or, presumably, any other comments Hunter might disagree with).
This, at least, explains why people who criticize Israel face sudden banishment for any violation of the rules, but those who attack Palestine do not, even if they are extremely abusive, such as constantly changing the tags on diaries they dislike.
by weasel on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 03:22:50 PM PDT
...because it makes a valid point - how are we amongst the rabble to know who is a shergald sock puppet and who isn't?
I also have a pretty big problem with the insinuation that the subject might become off limits. I don't support a lot of what gets said in the Palestinians' defense, and I certainly am no shergald fan. But I think Hunter is going way too far here. It is troubling.
I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day Neither is California High Speed Rail
by eugene on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 03:44:50 PM PDT
Banning is permanent. He does not get to keep posting here. Not as a woman. Not as an Irishman. Not as a canadian. Not as a midwesterner. Not as any of his fake identities. No dice.
It is that simple, and the rule applies to everyone. You get one shot, and after that you're done. That's been the rule for as many years as I have been here, on all sides of every issue and argument, so I sincerely hope people aren't going to start pretending to be surprised and shocked about it now.
by Hunter on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 04:42:50 PM PDT
I can not control Shergald. Nor do I want to.
by mattes on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 04:56:36 PM PDT
and so have no more constructive suggestions to offer. Perhaps when I'm not so angry I'll have a more useful approach to propose.
We are obviously not going to ban people who don't know it's Shergald or another multiply banned poster when they're rating someone up. That's not going to happen, despite my momentary fury.
On the other hand, it may be the case that we simply have to start removing the people who engage in or uprate the most virulent fights, and since a wide margin of all of those fights are at this point started by the same small damn set of sockpuppets, there's a huge correlation there.
by Hunter on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 06:04:07 PM PDT
and then people uprating them. I don't think they are sockpuppets but I don't know. The constant attackers should be warned, this would go a long way to lessen the tension. That being said I just don't see myself crying to you every time someone personally attacks me. I'd rather focus on the issues.
by mattes on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 06:22:25 PM PDT
Tho as you will see from this diary there are clearly those who consider any discussion of Israeli policies off limits, including one who believes that this should be the case to improve the chances of Democrats being elected.
It is the subversion of discussion by attacks against individuals I object to. You will also note that there are clearly those on here who are out to take down critics of Israel by troll rating. In some instances it is necessary to uprate the comments they attack purely to avoid somebody being autobanned by this process.
"That's an entirely valid point" - MBNYC
by londonbear on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 07:18:09 PM PDT
It won't be considered an outing. It's an arbitrary procedure...
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.
by callmecassandra on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 04:47:14 PM PDT
Your entire side of the argument is in danger of being removed en masse because of you and several other constant sockpuppets who apparently dedicated your lives to feuling it.
I am not sympathetic to a lot of the anti-Semitic crap that gets peddled as defense of the Palestinian cause. At the same time, I have a massive problem with the idea that any pro-Palestinian diary is now going to be inherently suspect, or subject to removal.
You have to find a better way to resolve this issue than trying to chill discourse.
by eugene on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 03:47:20 PM PDT
I am sure the site admins here have your own ways of determining who is a sockpuppet. However, as the administrator of Evenhanded Democrats, of which shergald has been a member from its inception, I am concerned about a couple of your assertions here:
Despite what you may have heard otherwise, Evenhanded Democrats is a group blog, not shergald's blog, even though he is our most prolific poster.
To my knowledge, the last of shergald's sockpuppets, zilly, posted a GBCW diary a few weeks after shergald's mid- January banning. I know of no one at ED who has encouraged him to resume. You may have been chasing a lot of sockpuppets lately; but I have seen no concrete evidence from him, other members of ED or the diaries on this site that those sockpuppets are shergald's.
My other concerns are more suited to private correspondence, which I will send later.
Reel Bad Arabs: a crash course on Orientalism
by Rusty Pipes on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 06:24:16 PM PDT
in the last two hours. The evidence is indeed concrete, and definitive, and unconditional. I have been able to track his sockpuppets through a number of methods, and they are indeed all quite firmly tied to 'Zilly'. I banned one of his incarnations yesterday, and I banned three more of his accounts today.
If you do not want to be known by the company you keep, I would strongly suggest you keep different company. He has been either lying to each of you about this behavior, either through omission or flat untruth -- in which case you should each rethink your relationship with him -- or some of you have been lying to me.
I'm obviously going to presume the former and not the latter, but I strongly suggest that you assume the same thing. You are his fellow bloggers: you're going to be branded by his actions, like it or not. If you want some advice from someone who knows full well what it's like to be involved in a group blog, I think you need to have a talk and decide between you what, if anything, you are going to do about it.
by Hunter on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 09:07:54 PM PDT
you considered contacting his ISP?
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." ~ Diderot
by Bouwerie Boy on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 09:33:48 PM PDT
...is at the center of the recent effort to bring anti-Israel, often enough anti-Semitic voices to DKos. I compiled the evidence for that in this comment. It contains links to:
I posted that comment in response to another comment, here, that made criticisms of Shergald and the anti-Semitic content recently in evidence on this site. That comment was troll-rated by seven users, including some directly or indirectly linked to Shergald, as contributors on his blog. The reason given for the troll-rating was the supposed outing of Shergald's first name by the commenter, jhritz, in a quote of a posting of his on another blog.
I wrote a diary recently on the substance and the effects of the hate speech promoted by Shergald and his cronies, after the initial Ben Heine incident. That diary is here.
There can be no doubt that Shergald is actively trying to advance his POV on Daily Kos, and that this effort is being at least facilitated by other users of this site. These users, whether by accident or design, as shown above, protect Shergald's interests on this site, e.g. by troll-rating critics, by recommending friendly diaries that directly serve to bring Daily Kos into disrepute, and by generally coarsening the level of discourse prevalent here. Having been troll-rated by them myself (though, granted, over comments that should be treated as ill-considered), defamed, and having my DKos user handle posted on a Middle Eastern hate site by another Kossack (Identical user comment on DKos here), yeah, I'd say that there is a problem here. I don't think I'm alone in considering videos popular with Neonazis unsuitable fare for a Progressive blog.
I am also not alone in saying that there is a problem with the discourse on this site as far as Israel is concerned. That discussion is happening online and offline now as well.
"How eager you are to be slaves." - Emperor Tiberius to the Senate of Rome, in response to their offer to pass any legislation he wished.
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 11:03:39 AM PDT
for your attention to this matter. We have taken some steps in light of this information.
by Rusty Pipes on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 12:47:38 PM PDT
by blueness on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 09:49:30 AM PDT
wide narrow
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