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But, that having been said, I am still not of the opinion they'll push for a draft. My sense is they'll try to wring more soldiers out of the manpower they currently have, continue stop-loss rules and forced extensions of tours and commitments, things like that. Next up will be various kinds of new incentives to recruit people - I keep expecting the US military to begin recruiting abroad and dangle the promise of a green card for the soldier and his family plus a signing bonus, a contemporary echo of the way most previous empires found troops.
A draft could happen, but I am not yet seeing the political support for it, in either party. That could turn on a dime of course, but right now it seems a remote possibility.
I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day Neither is California High Speed Rail
by eugene on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:22:42 PM PDT
I believe that for now, a draft is the last thing the republicans want. Too close to owning up to the fact that they are trying to foster continual war. They are also not stupid...they realize that the minute a draft is in place, the public will be very stringent in its support of military use of force for any reason.
by tjb22 on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:25:13 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
Hired guns and "Guest" soldiers. Let the market drive the war machine. Bush and his souless philosophy must end.
We can have the Constitution or we can have Bush but, we can't have both.
by Friend of the court on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:28:55 PM PDT
But I can guarandamntee you that whatever "support services" being done in offices/bases around the world that are currently being done by active duty soldiers will be done by hired contractors, and the "support service" type people will be trading in their staplers and pencils for sidearms and body armor (if they're lucky).
by kineticdissent on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:35:17 PM PDT
both are linguists - fairly critical fields - but that said, if the military runs out of guns - they will decide that they can "train more" down the road.
what happens when we run out of soldiers? who will be left to fight?
draftgore2008 and northington 08 DE-AL
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:38:25 PM PDT
honestly, I don't think we'll ever "run out of soldiers" but I think the closer we get to that point, the more shady things are going to be. sure, there's already "private security firms" doing military work, but if we get to a point where the military is severely depleted, I think you'll see a couple of things, in this order.
The whole goal of our military excursion in Iraq and everything since has been to toss massive amounts of money into the private sector benefactors who are friends and supporters of this administration. Eventually (and I'd be surprised if I'm the first to have this idea) they'll find a way to make money off of military recruiting.
by kineticdissent on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:45:54 PM PDT
massive amounts of money to throw around. i'm not so sure that is going to be the case.
i feel deep in my bones that very hard times are going to hit this nation - sooner rather than later.
when that happens, the government can print all the money it likes, but when the loaf of bread costs more than the bonus, people aren't going to be eager to join.
given the instability bush has wrought on the world, i don't see masses of intelligent poor young people looking at the military as a good "investment" for their future. to spend that bonus, you have to be alive - and with all the destabilization and the speed with which it happened, i can see many who might have considered the military now looking for other options.
damn, pushing drugs in east l.a. is safer than joining the military right now - and it pays a helluva lot better, too!
i see this nation as descending into really dark times for crime as a means of the poor surviving... and i see the lack of municipalities being able to supply adequate police forces playing a major part in that scenario.
we are, i fear, fast becoming a third world country in many aspects of our existence.
damn - this is a very dark diary - very very dark.
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:00:50 PM PDT
And you're right, it's a very dark diary and we're in for very dark times. I really wish I could be more optimistic but I really believe what I'm posting. The government will ALWAYS put up the money for military efforts...no matter how broke we get, the defense budget will only go up as a percentage of government spending..Grover Norquist's dream come true. Whatever they have to cut, they'll cut, and the sole purpose is to make the GOP's benefactors richer.
by kineticdissent on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:28:35 PM PDT
and this moneypot is not limitless.
i see the rest of the world as taking a hand in stopping the rampant rape of the rest of the world by the multinationals - if not here at home, in other countries - times will be troubled and violent.
already, history has shown that suppressed people eventually will be forced into a corner that there is no way out but fighting through the immoral, brutal masters - and in this century, those weilding the whips are in very expensive suits.
world revolution? maybe it will happen - not here as much as those third world countries that come into the new century through technology and realize they are being exploited.
we're in for troubled times in this new millenium. and, silly me, i thought it would be the age of enlightenment! welcome to thunderdome, folks!
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:47:32 PM PDT
With our tax dollars, we pay Blackwater and the other Cheney/Bushco militarys, 4-5 times military pay scale and they are not regulated.
I trust Barack Obama.
by mjd in florida on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:10:17 PM PDT
I mentioned the private security firms, didn't I?
Blackwater is the tip of the iceberg, IMO.
by kineticdissent on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:25:29 PM PDT
real military at re-enlistment time too! (with our tax dollars!!!)
by mjd in florida on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:29:14 PM PDT
krb, haliburton and all are held accountable and their corporate criminals are held accountable.
jail is too good for these people. the hague is a good place to begin, though.
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:43:21 PM PDT
around my son, unless you want to listen to a 10 minute rant!
by mjd in florida on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:52:12 PM PDT
we are good at hearing rants! and he could have a good place to vent!
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 11:03:00 PM PDT
dolphin777
by dolphin777 on Tue May 08, 2007 at 02:15:11 AM PDT
My son is going thru his own PTSD even though he wasn't combat but did witness a few roadside bombings. (His real life job is law enforcement, he is a registered hand-gun owner but never used his rifle overseas) He hates our media and our politicians for not exposing the crimes and corporate corruption that he witnessed against our military and the people. He appreciated his Afghani soldiers and loved his interpreter that had several degrees and spoke 5 languages fluently. He became a fighting, military "Dem" with his voting this last fall but despises our politicians and our administration. Love, mjd
by mjd in florida on Tue May 08, 2007 at 11:22:49 AM PDT
My SSG son ran an Afghani National Army Depot near Kabul from July 2005-July 2006. He had several Navy swabbies assigned to him with no mechanical training. It accounted for the number of boots on the ground and was frustrating for all. It is like Bushco is still playing with all of their "little plastic" military guys from childhood and throwing them in a pile. Our experienced "grunts" are waiting (extending one year at a time, no bonuses) or quitting. They expect our Congress to do their oversight job of exposing and removing the Bushco Cabal from office for their massive War Profiteering and their War Crimes that they committed in Afghanistan and Iraq. (including Cheneys secret business deals with Pakistan) Our "grunts" expect our Congress to do their GOD DAMNED job instead of threatening to do it! love, mjd
by mjd in florida on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:58:13 PM PDT
and all those who are mired in this disaster with him.
from what my friend told me today, i flashed immediately to major chaos in the field - placing everyone involved in greater harms way.
we need to start barraging our congress members and members of the armed services committees of both houses to stop this and stop it now!
also, we need to start demanding of the REPUBLICAN members of congress that they get off their collective derrieres and start taking care of the REAL military - the kids with guns!
i hope your son is home now, if not - i hope he comes home soon and safe.
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:03:30 PM PDT
His commander and Colonel begged him to stay on to train new recruits which is a challenge with the reduced standards. He actually has made home visits to drag little shits out of bed when they didn't show up for their monthly weekends. (AWOL, chickenhawk Georgie obviously didn't get that treatment when he was a partying "guardman")
by mjd in florida on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:17:21 PM PDT
if active, that scares the bejezus out of me about doing the home visits.
i really believe there are enough good souls who believe in this nation that are staying in in SPITE of bushco.
one of my adopteds is planning to go career because he would like to offer an intelligent alternative to what is in the pike. i actually feel better with a staunch democrat in for the full duration. if he DOES re-up, we will all be better for it.
my other adopted will most likely opt out - he hates it. i keep telling him to watch the callups for the irr and if it looks like people are getting called back, re-up and request overseas in his language again. they have to redeploy him there - that will keep him from harms way for a while.
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:26:15 PM PDT
and has extended twice. He had always planned 20 years, 2nd career but is now going year by year. Just waiting for our Congress to expose the corruption and crimes.
by mjd in florida on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:39:51 PM PDT
for those who stay in in SPITE of the corruption and crimes, this nation owes a HUGE debt of gratitude!
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:41:50 PM PDT
linguists in combat duties.
Linguists are in short supply, require lengthy and difficult training, and tend to be specialized for a certain type of brains that does not tend to go along with the extraordinary physical stamina needed to be engaged in combat in a place where the temperature is 115 in the shade.
Linguists could be taken out of other geographic areas and moved to Iraq, and then moved closer to the front in other intel assignments, all of which are increasing degrees of risk.
---
As for the draft: Bush will leave the military completely broken, so that the task of calling up a draft falls to the Democratic president who we'lll all be electing next year.
The thing that most infuriates me about the present Regime is what it has done to our military and intel capabilities. They couldn't have done worse if they were actively and deliberately working for the enemy.
If there is any way to make them all serve time behind bars, we should be pursuing it ferociously: now, next year, and even after these bastards are out of office.
by G2geek on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:00:07 PM PDT
the true traitors to this nation and the american soldiers and population!
as for sending linguists - the one who ended up in the army was "silly" enough not to reenlist - so he was fresh meat for the grinder.
still, with this group - it is the numbers game - look at who is serving - the number of reservists who are older - not fit, the younger injured who cannot wear body armor and are still sent back - the inexperienced and untrained from other branches in areas that are outside their training... this is NOT about "winning" this "war" - it is about sustaining it long enough to rake in the ungodly profits for the contract companies.
this is a numbers game - much like viet nam was in the end. it is all in the numbers - not the humanity, skill or capability. soldiers are expendable. there are more where they came from - and if you can keep filling the slots - you never have to say you're sorry (wrong).
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:08:25 PM PDT
I know several linguists who have been in, or are going to, Iraq. These are the top 1% in amount and cost of training in the military! Many of them scored so high on the military entrance exams that they are not allowed to join as simply riflemen. And today they're valued as nothing more than: one (1) pair of boots with one (1) M-16 rifle, expendable
Aoujord'hui, rien
by Alex of the Sea on Mon May 07, 2007 at 10:09:49 PM PDT
hammering our representatives about the waste in "money" - since that is all many of them seem to understand!
the vulnerability of the republicans lies in the pocketbook - if we make the population know that they are paying massive amounts to train people to protect us and then those people are being thrown away to keep bush looking "good" - then 2009 will be a rude awakening for ALL republicans running for office!
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 11:01:52 PM PDT
It's a waste of money and an insanely stupid waste of resources.
My nephew is in the Naval Reserve and is currently serving in Iraq. His years of training on aircraft carriers won't be of much value in the desert.
by fallina7 on Tue May 08, 2007 at 04:04:39 AM PDT
They've managed to pretty much conceal the fact that 10% of our forces in Iraq are contractors [mercenaries], and no one can get a true figure of how many of them have been killed.
There's money to be made, and I don't see any reaon why they won't continue to expand the privatization.
Except, of course, if Congress can actually grab hold of the purse strings and get the occupation costs into the regular budget, subject to oversight.
by maryru on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:41:06 PM PDT
"is approaching the size of the U.S. military force there" - Census Counts 100,000 Contractors in Iraq (not including subcontractors). This article further states that "about 650 contractors have died in Iraq since 2003, according to Labor Department statistics".
by kitchen table activist on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:58:12 PM PDT
when the money runs out? or when they decide they've had enough?
wasn't there a problem early on feeding the troops because the "contractors" decided it was too dangerous to go in field? i remember that from the outset of this debacle.
money can't buy everything - and if when this thing becomes a full out civil war, there won't be enough money to keep those individual contractors there - they CAN leave, you know! there's no such thing as awol for a contractor - just no more money.
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:10:45 PM PDT
I linked to - wtf does this mean? (It didn't sink in the first time I read it.)
The census gives military commanders insight into the contractors operating in their region and the type of work they are doing, Wittkoff said. "It helps the combatant commanders have a better idea of . . . food and medical requirements they may need to provide to support the contractors," she said.
That seems backward - aren't the contractors supposed to be supporting the troops, or am I missing something? It's bugging me.
by kitchen table activist on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:30:02 PM PDT
and i agree with you - WTF???
since WHEN did our military support the contractors who pull in $130,000 a year (while our soldiers' families are on food stamps!)
WTF! indeed!@@#*^!
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:38:57 PM PDT
a couple of days ago talking about contracted security guards in the Green Zone demanding that the military defend them better, or they were going to take matters into their own hands.
You're right. It's bizarre. Given what the contractors are paid vs. our military service members, everything seems upside down.
Thanks for your update on numbers. I read an AP article a few weeks ago that said it took them months to get any figures out of the DOD, and even then couldn't identify what countries the contract workers were from.
by maryru on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:43:47 PM PDT
come out of their bubble to admit that the military is broken - all is wonderful - rosy - perfect (except we're running out of troops, ammunitions, equipment, money).
this isn't as much a ponder about who will ask for a draft but IT the congress will have to restore it to repair the broken state of military affairs.
what happens when young men and women STOP joining the air force and navy (since those were fairly "safe" forces to join to get that education and training.)
is reality going to set in for all of this nation that to have a military, it has to COME from somewhere?
my guess is that it will happen after the destroyer finally rides out of town on that rail covered in feathers. the nation will be forced to accept tough choices (pointed out by the responsibility party rather than the ideological muckups).
i am thinking that it will be angrily agreed to for a limited basis ONLY after the air force and navy are also depleted and we no longer have massive amounts of money to "entice" new recruits.
or, another possibility is a massive depression will force many impoverished americans into the military for "secure" jobs (think south korean military enrollment - at least they get food!).
bad times are coming and they will hit about jan 21, 2009. this is planned - the raping and pillaging of america by the greedy is at a frenzy right now - but it can't be sustained - then the collapse and we get left to try to pick up the pieces.
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:34:16 PM PDT
About the military being used as a sort of jobs creation program for a second great depression makes a great deal of sense to me.
Of course, we as a nation could also decide to have a dramatically smaller military. It's not like we need this huge one we've got.
by eugene on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:46:07 PM PDT
in the 21st century. the type of "war" we were used to in years past doesn't work any more.
there are no big nations with missles aimed at us - the insurgency is the new "war" - and for that, computers and star wars systems don't work... it takes feet on the ground - and diplomacy.
maybe a military that helps rebuild impoverished nations instead of destroying them - then all who serve will serve all of humankind instead of destroying it.
by edrie on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:56:18 PM PDT
wide narrow
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