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Honestly, I really don't think we'll have any problem with down ballot candidates regardless of which of the top four (including Richardson) wins the primary. I just don't believe we're either that racist or that sexist in this country anymore. Any down ballot candidate who would be hurt by them is probably in such an awfully deep-red district that he or she couldn't realistically win anyway.
Sean Robertson Discharge John McCain!
by Sean Robertson on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:21:34 AM PDT
Edwards is only telling the Truth. You're the one making it a gender and racist issue.
Dems will not hold impeachment hearings while Bill is campaigning with Hillary.
by annefrank on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:27:00 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
...on what other bases are Obama and Clinton less electable?
Did you love NN08 in Austin? Join us in Pittsburgh in 2009!
by Adam B on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:30:58 AM PDT
by annefrank on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:46:10 AM PDT
Hawaii and Illinois are "the North"?
by Adam B on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:47:22 AM PDT
by annefrank on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:51:47 AM PDT
I will never forget when I was in school at LSU. I, a guy from southern Illinois was called a Yankee. This pissed me off at many different levels. I always felt it was a Civil War thing. So I suggested they pick up a history book. Illinois fought within it self. North vs. south on a state level.
Let us not forget New Orleans. Visit Project Katrina.
by webranding on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:18:16 PM PDT
I thought Hillary was the senator from New York.
And Chicago, where Obama hails from, is pretty darn far noth. I should know. I went to University of Chicago myself.
by Inky on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:58:49 PM PDT
I'm Law '97. But Obama's from Hawaii, and campaigned well in Southern Illinois in 2004. I do love the way Sen. Obama tells the story:
About a week after the primary, Dick Durbin and I embarked on a nineteen city tour of Southern Illinois. And one of the towns we went to was a place called Cairo, which, as many of you might know, achieved a certain notoriety during the late 60s and early 70s as having one of the worst racial climates in the country. You had an active white citizen's council there, you had cross burnings, Jewish families were being harassed, you had segregated schools, race riots, you name it - it was going on in Cairo. And we're riding down to Cairo and Dick Durbin turns to me and says, "Let me tell you about the first time I went to Cairo. It was about 30 years ago. I was 23 years old and Paul Simon, who was Lieutenant Governor at the time, sent me down there to investigate what could be done to improve the racial climate in Cairo." And Dick tells me how he diligently goes down there and gets picked up by a local resident who takes him to his motel. And as Dick's getting out of the car, the driver says "excuse me, let me just give you a piece of advice. Don't use the phone in your motel room because the switchboard operator is a member of the white citizen's council, and they'll report on anything you do." Well, this obviously makes Dick Durbin upset, but he's a brave young man, so he checks in to his room, unpacks his bags and a few minutes later he hears a knock on the door. He opens up the door and there's a guy standing there who just stares at Dick for a second, and then says, "What the hell are you doing here?" and walks away. Well, now Dick is really feeling concerned and so am I because as he's telling me this story, we're pulling in to Cairo. So I'm wondering what kind of reception we're going to get. And we wind our way through the town and we go past the old courthouse, take a turn and suddenly we're in a big parking lot and about 300 people are standing there. About a fourth of them are black and three fourths are white and they all are about the age where they would have been active participants in the epic struggle that had taken place thirty years earlier. And as we pull closer, I see something. All of these people are wearing these little buttons that say "Obama for U.S. Senate." And they start smiling. And they start waving. And Dick and I looked at each other and didn't have to say a thing. Because if you told Dick thirty years ago that he - the son of Lithuania immigrants born into very modest means in east St. Louis - would be returning to Cairo as a sitting United States Senator, and that he would have in tow a black guy born in Hawaii with a father from Kenya and a mother from Kansas named Barack Obama, no one would have believed it. But it happened. And it happened because John Lewis and scores of brave Americans stood on that bridge and lived to cross it. ...
About a week after the primary, Dick Durbin and I embarked on a nineteen city tour of Southern Illinois. And one of the towns we went to was a place called Cairo, which, as many of you might know, achieved a certain notoriety during the late 60s and early 70s as having one of the worst racial climates in the country. You had an active white citizen's council there, you had cross burnings, Jewish families were being harassed, you had segregated schools, race riots, you name it - it was going on in Cairo.
And we're riding down to Cairo and Dick Durbin turns to me and says, "Let me tell you about the first time I went to Cairo. It was about 30 years ago. I was 23 years old and Paul Simon, who was Lieutenant Governor at the time, sent me down there to investigate what could be done to improve the racial climate in Cairo."
And Dick tells me how he diligently goes down there and gets picked up by a local resident who takes him to his motel. And as Dick's getting out of the car, the driver says "excuse me, let me just give you a piece of advice. Don't use the phone in your motel room because the switchboard operator is a member of the white citizen's council, and they'll report on anything you do."
Well, this obviously makes Dick Durbin upset, but he's a brave young man, so he checks in to his room, unpacks his bags and a few minutes later he hears a knock on the door. He opens up the door and there's a guy standing there who just stares at Dick for a second, and then says, "What the hell are you doing here?" and walks away.
Well, now Dick is really feeling concerned and so am I because as he's telling me this story, we're pulling in to Cairo. So I'm wondering what kind of reception we're going to get. And we wind our way through the town and we go past the old courthouse, take a turn and suddenly we're in a big parking lot and about 300 people are standing there. About a fourth of them are black and three fourths are white and they all are about the age where they would have been active participants in the epic struggle that had taken place thirty years earlier.
And as we pull closer, I see something. All of these people are wearing these little buttons that say "Obama for U.S. Senate." And they start smiling. And they start waving. And Dick and I looked at each other and didn't have to say a thing. Because if you told Dick thirty years ago that he - the son of Lithuania immigrants born into very modest means in east St. Louis - would be returning to Cairo as a sitting United States Senator, and that he would have in tow a black guy born in Hawaii with a father from Kenya and a mother from Kansas named Barack Obama, no one would have believed it.
But it happened. And it happened because John Lewis and scores of brave Americans stood on that bridge and lived to cross it. ...
by Adam B on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 01:04:53 PM PDT
from one maroon to another. And also because I'm sick of the in-fighting between Obama supporters and Edwards supporters llike myself.
I foolishly thought someone was saying that Hillary was from Hawaii. She claims to hail from so many places that I almost accepted it.
by Inky on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 01:24:54 PM PDT
If you look at the totality of 2008 general elecion polling it becomes crystal clear that John Edwards is the most electable Democrat.
Go to this blog and see for yourself...
Team Edwards Blog
The Rasmussen numbers are on top but scroll down to "2008 Polling - Updated" and you'll see a sample of Edwards' "greatest hits" going back to December(we stopped there out of fairness to Barack Obama)
Sorry folks, but it's true. Look at his performance in the statewide polls in Texas, Kansas, Kentucky, and Alabama.
Not to mention the fact that he wins by large margins in Iowa, Missouri, Ohio, Virginia, New Mexico...You get the point...he wins every swing state by far more than the other two, if they even win at all, and he is the only candidate who can defend the upper Midwest with ease.
Sure Obama and Hillary have their moments in the sun during which they outperform the others, but ever since the first 2008 polls were taken in late November 2004 it was clear that John Edwards was the most electable Democrat. You cannot just ignore years of fairly consistent polling like that.
Here's what Rasmussen had to say about it...
On the Democratic side of the aisle, far and away the best general election performance was earned by Edwards. He topped the four Republicans by an average of 51% to 37%. Edwards also outperforms the other Democrats against each Republican challenger.
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by Team Edwards on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:13:34 PM PDT
You've had some problems of late.
Edwards implied that Clinton and Obama can't campaign everywhere in America. That's a shitty, Republican-meme-reinforcing argument.
by Adam B on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:18:17 PM PDT
analysis.
"[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.
by Geekesque on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:22:00 PM PDT
Clinton is less "electable" because so many people, dems, republicans and independants won't vote for her if she wins the nomination. The repubicans want her to win more than anything else in order to rally the base, and to bring in independant votes. Most dems won't vote for a republican, but many would not vote for Hillary, they just would not vote period.
Obama is "new" and exciting, just like Dean was. But what happened with Dean? The newness wore off, and when it came time to pick a nominee, they picked Kerry, who had low polls, and who many thought didn't stand a chance of getting the nomination. Obama needs more time, and would do better as a VP in order to get the experience he needs. He just is not stepping up to the plate as a leader, but has waited and played things safe. That's not what people want in a nominee, and it will show in the primaries.
Edwards has showed his leadership, and has not been afraid to come out "first" with the ideas that the other two are now speaking out about, like health care, poverty, education, etc.
I don't see what Edwards said as racist, or sexist. It's a fact that he has what the party needs. Hillary may have the money, and high polls, but she also has a high poll rating for "unlikeablity", and that will hurt her if she does win the nomination. Obabma may have a "rock star" following, but will it carry him in a national election? I don't think so.
I think that the people will come to the conclusion come primary time that the demoracts need a "winner" who can carry the party to victory, and who can also bring in indpendants, and even republicans who are tired of the "corporate" mentality. The people want someone who will not cater to the big corporations, but who will stand up for the people in America who do not have a voice anymore in how our country is being run. In my heart I feel that Edwards is that person, and it has nothing to do with race or gender. He will help us witht he "changes" that are needed to take this country back to the way it was meant to be, and not take us down the road to "corporate" domination.
by Andy823 on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:50:39 PM PDT
Edwards.
But it has nothing to do with electability.
by Geekesque on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 01:02:28 PM PDT
Tell you why I think the that Hillary and Obama can not be elected. Hillary is republican light. She backs the same things that the republicans do when it comes to corporations. She will not get us out of Iraq, and the money that backs her shows how she will be as a president. More trade agreements that will harm the country, just like NAFTA, and put more Americans out of jobs.
And Obama lacks leadership and experience. A prime example is his, and Hillary's vote on the last Iraq budget bill. Yes, he voted "no", as did Hillary, but they both waited till there were enough votes in to pass the bill before they voted, and they did nothing to use their influence to get more dems to vote NO. That's not leadership my friend. These things will come back to haunt him later on.
by Andy823 on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 01:35:36 PM PDT
That is not a discussion of electability.
by Geekesque on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 01:37:34 PM PDT
he said> First of all he is polling forth to a non candidate so he is not one of the three people most likely to win. And, there is no reason that Clinton and Obama can't go anywhere. His statement was racist and sexist. Even if he is not racist and sexist he was purposely appealing to those isms. Not nice.
Unseen Gore Video
by TeresaInPa on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:36:21 AM PDT
Apparently you're not aware why Gore is included in polling. There is no reason to believe that Hillary and Obama could win the south and rural voters.
by annefrank on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:49:17 AM PDT
I'd love for him to run again, but seriously, he's not invincible. "The grass is always greener..."
by Sean Robertson on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:50:52 AM PDT
by annefrank on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:52:46 AM PDT
Except for Clinton's success in rural parts of New York and Obama's success in Southern Illinois.
by Adam B on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:52:44 AM PDT
are like rural TX and FL and SC? Jeeeez! If their zipcodes are nawthern - they're LIBRULS! Period.
by annefrank on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:57:52 AM PDT
NY.
by Geekesque on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:02:43 PM PDT
actually, I think the hate nawtherners - and especially New Yawkers - began during the civil rights movement when NYT published reporters' accounts of the killings and abuses of blacks. That was supposed to be kept a secret. Shhhh...
by annefrank on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:07:36 PM PDT
Do you even know how to pronounce Cairo, Illinois? And are you aware of how poorly Edwards did in rural parts of NC in 1998?
by Adam B on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:03:17 PM PDT
btw- ain't no difference in Illinois and Egypt - cause they ain't in the south. lol
by annefrank on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:10:44 PM PDT
If anything, Edwards has moved way to the left since then, right?
by Adam B on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:12:33 PM PDT
and I assume many other rural places and parts of the south he has to be right on two issues. Gun control and trade. Period!
by webranding on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:14:33 PM PDT
If Conservative JE couldn't win the south how is Liberal JE going to do it.
"In Japan, American occupation forces quickly became 50,000 friends. In Iraq, they would quickly become 50,000 terrorist targets. " James Webb, Sep 02
by ParaHammer on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 02:09:10 PM PDT
by webranding on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:08:18 PM PDT
JE polling on those 3 states?
by ParaHammer on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 02:08:08 PM PDT
I am an Edwards guy, but got no issue with Obama (Clinton, another story). I've lived in the deep South, DC and now southern Illinois. If you don't think racism is a fact then your eyes are closed.
And the part of southern Illinois I live in is pretty darn red, even if the state is blue. And when Obama came here it was like the rock star. I was actually stunned.
by webranding on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:01:47 PM PDT
Obama ran against a total loon.
Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 02:17:19 PM PDT
Even if Edwards is given the benefit of the doubt on this, I'd refuse to vote for him just based on his proposed mandatory national service plan. The man hasn't even himself participated in any such service, as I am excluding the Senate.
Strength and wisdom are not conflicting values--they go hand in hand. - Bill Clinton
by skidrow on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:51:11 AM PDT
Cats, err, Pooties! for Obama "The president doesn't have a magic wand." The President
by PhillyGal on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:54:48 AM PDT
the bogus 'electability' meme to the local press in these places for a while now.
by Geekesque on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:56:46 AM PDT
Didn't say 'all American to serve their country' -- he said 'all American to have a chance to serve their country'
EENR blog, a progressive community focused on issues with a side of fun
by edgery on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:00:41 PM PDT
the GOP loves to smear us on small non-issues like a mistake on haircuts or using an airplane. I don't understand why another Democrat would help them?
by cacamp on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:55:54 PM PDT
wide narrow
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