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The reason the Constitution gets kicked around is that there are not real penalties for abusing it.
By the by, did you know that even the word "Constitution" can get you put on a watch list?
by bernardpliers on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 01:07:26 PM PDT
If using the word "Constitution" can get me put on a watch list, then given the provocative nature of my new book, "A More Perfect Constitution," I must already be on my way to Guantanamo. The Bush administration just hasn't told me yet.
by Larry J Sabato on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 01:10:36 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
Larry,
I don't think the Republicans are like most of America. They are arrogant, they are selfish, they are nasty and they don't mind bleeding America of everything of value.
Maybe it's not criminal but take a look at this video entitled, Tryphorgettin. http://www.youtube.com/...
It's one thing to attack someone for what they have done, but these bastard Republicans have no problem lying and distorting and cheating Ameericans of the truth. I am sorry, they are not all like that. These are evil people.
They are not like us, as someone on here said the other day.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis
by cpa1 on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 01:32:32 PM PDT
And I remember this character Juanita Broaddrick, is about as low as you can go. I have urged that the Democrats should beat the living daylights out of these Republicans and deal with them with disgust and ridicule but they don't ever learn.
That weakness, not being able to fight this Republican pond scum, is why Americans think they are weak and there is no question in my mind that that is why John Kerry lost the election, despite the Republican shenanigans in Ohio.
by cpa1 on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 01:47:56 PM PDT
a favorite of Democrats and far ahead in all the polls. She won't take any crap from anyone...least of all the 'vast right-wing conspiracy.' She named it and she was right and few have her experience in standing up to them and fighting back. Backbone is her middle name.
Tell me how you spend your time and how you spend your money -- I'll tell you what your values are.
by oldpro on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 05:59:42 PM PDT
You learn something new every day ...
You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god
by Clem Yeobright on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 09:58:17 AM PDT
Our Undemocratic Constitution by Sanford Levinson. For those interested in teh topic, this might also be good reading. Also, I have a personal blog at wordpress dedicated mostly to this topic, albeit my blog is aimed at democratizing our society, primarily through constitutional amendments.
-9.88,-7.59 Just because empire is an ugly word doesn't mean you're not living in one.
by real democracy on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 11:28:39 PM PDT
I hope you fly in cheap shoes on the book tour.
Have you heard? The vice president's gone mad. - Bob Dylan, 1966
by textus on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 06:05:05 AM PDT
That is intriguing. Whence comes this piece of information? And here I thought you had to reiterate "jihad! Jihad! JIHAD!!" to get onto that list.
"The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller
by lgmcp on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 01:16:18 PM PDT
No one knows what gets a person on the watch list.
"The United States will always do the right thing, after trying all the other options." ~ Winston Churchill
by Gregory Wonderwheel on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 01:48:59 PM PDT
Seriously, this goes back to Oklahoma City and the black helicopter conspiracy crowd, who hated Clinton but flocked to embrace W.
by bernardpliers on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 02:06:16 PM PDT
"violating the Constitution" is an inevitable question-begger.
I mean, violations of the 4th and 5th and 6th cause evidence to be excluded, other violations can be enjoined, each provision works differently. You'd have to be really specific about the kinds of violations, using "enacting legislation" and whatnot.
"I wish God were alive to see this." - Homer Simpson
by jdodsonvls on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 01:22:33 PM PDT
Now so tattered and threadbare as to be for all practical and legal purposes totally nullified.
It is a contemplation of the manner in which rights, such as those clearly guaranteed by the 4th, have been quietly eroded away by judicial pettifogging, which makes the idea of "reforming" or "improving" the Constitution quite laughable.
We have a perfectly good Constitution right now, if only we would cease to ignore it.
--
by marquer on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 03:22:40 PM PDT
and at the hands of the so-called "strict constructionists." "Search" doesn't really mean search, "probable cause" doesn't apply to searches that aren't "searches," and apparently the word "warrant" is just fluff.
by jdodsonvls on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 03:44:49 PM PDT
It, too, no longer seems to have any meaning.
"Cynicism is a sorry wisdom." - Barack Obama
by BlueGenes on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 04:22:10 PM PDT
It's code for the people that promise to overthrow the Constitution in favor of a political agenda.
by bernardpliers on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 05:49:46 PM PDT
by changing the structure of the government, which would of necessity involve constitutional amendments. Part of the reason that our executive branch is prone to such abuses is the singular nature of its direction. That is, having a single person in charge of the entire executive branch, responsible for appointing all senior executive officers, and for the most part having the right to fire them as well, means that the entire executive functions "at the pleasure of the president," and however the president is inclined, so shall the rest of the executive be administered. And most functions of government fall under the executive, including of course, the military and law enforcement, which leaves the other branches with not much to fight back with.
Of course, "executive privilege" and the power to appoint members of the federal judiciary add to the problem.
Even the legislative branch has some decidedly undemocratic elements to it, not because of the constitution, but the remedies to these problems can, and probably should, lie in constitutional amendments.
To fix the problem with the consolidation of executive power, we must break that power up. Instead of a president, we should designate a disparate executive made up of a Secretariat committee of four persons to run each department of the federal executive. To deal with situations involving the coordination of multiple departments of the executive, there should be a Steering Committee with a rotating membership, such that every member of any of the executive Secretariats will serve an equal amount of time on the steering committee during their four-year term.
The Executive Secretariats should neither be elected by the people directly (which might lead them to claim "a mandate for the people"), nor be appointed by either of the existing branches of government. Rather, they should be "hired" by committees elected specifically for that purpose, and it should remain clear that they are serving simply to administer the executive departments, to carry out the policies and laws as directed by the Legislative Branch, not to determine policy. I'd recommend assembling the Executive Hiring Board (or whatever we might call it) by electing two persons for each House District (in the off years between House elections) to be in the pool of candidates, then have lotteries to determine the hiring committees for each department.
Candidates for the positions in the Secretariats would apply, as in any job, and those members of the hiring pool who were not selected to be on any specific hiring committee would read applications to determine which candidates are qualified to be considered by the committees, and recommend which committee(s) should interview them. Second, the people would vote in an election of planks. Rather than voting on any specific people, the people would vote on a variety of possible positions with regard to the issues facing the nation. Regarding each issue, any plank which receives at least 10% support should be considered part of the hiring paradigm, and the committees should try to hire an executive that reflects a representative cross-section of America, rather than any single party's perspective.
I have ideas on reforming the Legislative Branch as well, but I've rambled on long enough for this comment.
by real democracy on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:13:25 AM PDT
by rlochow on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 01:51:23 PM PDT
Larry: What's missing from your national service proposal is any equivalent measure for incorporated legal entities that are "legal persons" rather than "natural persons."
A wartime military draft exposes natural persons to risk of death and serious injury, but imposes no such burden on legal persons. These are hardly equal stakes.
During peacetime, defense contractors can earn their usual profits on their products and services. During wartime they are obligated to produce at nonprofit rates, "at-cost." Thus the sacrifice of time on the part of draftees is to some degree matched by an analogous sacrifice on the part of legal persons that might otherwise benefit from war.
Or, during wartime, corporate assets would be subject to a draft as well, and siezed in proportion to deaths and serious injuries in combat, creating the equivalent of "death and injury" for these corporations, and thereby exposing them to an equal-stakes risk analogous to death in combat.
For example at present, the law requires that corporate boards of directors act to maximize return to investors (shareholders). This creates a positive-feedback incentive with no corresponding negative feedback mechanism as a check and balance against the various excesses that I hardly have to ennumerate here.
By way of balance, we might want to:
a) Obligate any entity that is publicly traded or is larger than a specified threshold size (the threshold being specified in terms of a relationship e.g. market share or some other relative measure) to also serve a public interest purpose as well as the interests of its financial stakeholders. That public interest involved might typically be mitigation of the "side effects" of the entitiy's activities. Or it might be something entirely unrelated in order to prevent conflicts of interest.
b) Strip legal persons of their ability to influence debate on public issues and candidates and ballot measures. In essence apply the same limits as presently apply to 501c3 nonprofits, across the board to all incorporated entities. Tax exemption is presently considered a privilege for which the corresponding obligation is to refrain from participation in politics as such. However, legal personhood is also a privilege and can thus be linked to obligations of this sort. (This is a compromise from a classical libertarian position (held by at least some libertarian democrats) that holds that there should not be legal personhood in the first place.)
c) Obligate legal persons to neutralize any cost externalities they create in the economy, the environment, or society-at-large. In other words, internalize all externalities. (This is a core libertarian position as well: externalities violate the principle of consenting adult transactions.)
---
Re. national service for the young:
I would be wary of attaching this to a demographic, e.g. age. I would also be wary of creating one-size-fits-all scenarios.
In no way should any national service provision be promoted on any grounds that have to do with "the value of the experience" or "building character" or whatever. Social engineering of that type is wholly illegitimate: individuals have the right to determine for themselves what sort of person they will be, so long as they are not planning to engage in criminal behaviors.
National service can and should only be justified on the basis of pressing national needs for which other measures are not feasible. And before we go conscripting young people, we should be looking for other measures that will be effective in alleviating these pressing needs.
National service projects should be set up in a manner that enables local initiative: for example a group forms out of some existing local constituency that has identified a pressing need, and applies for a national service status, and obtains funding to enact their proposal. A typical example would be inner city youth, in conjunction with their school teachers, addressing the issue of gang violence in their area by developing a gang diversion program, organizing neighborhood watches, and developing a civilian patrol program.
The point here being that once a national need is identified, local participation can identify its local ramifications and develop the means of addressing them in a manner that national-level management may not be able to. (By example: FEMA seems to think Louisiana is doing just fine, but a locally empowered service entity could act where FEMA does not.)
by G2geek on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 03:52:30 PM PDT
While I for one am pretty firmly against legal personhood, I think your proposal would mitigate the worst effects of it that we see today.
by BlueGenes on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 04:27:40 PM PDT
Realistically there needs to be a means by which groups of ordinary people can form businesses that can obtain investment. If there was not an incorporation mechanism, then only very wealthy people could create new business startups.
Also there are some types of projects that are simply not possible on the scale of individuals: for example a steel mill, an automobile company (Tesla Motors comes to mind), a computer manufacturer (Apple), etc. All of these require funds on a scale that simply isn't possible for individuals. Even Bill Gates would have a hard time setting up a steel mill.
So for those reasons we need to have an incorporation mechanism, to create legal entities whose existence is independent of their founders. And as well for the sake of continuity of a business entity after its founders have gone on to other things or died (otherwise imagine the enormous legal mess that would occur every time a key person enters or leaves a company).
However we necessarily have to have checks and balances, or we end up where we are today, with economic power that becomes de-facto political power outside of anyone's ability to limit its excesses. Thus my proposals.
(The key difference between Republican Libertarians and Democratic Libertarians is: RLs believe that only the state has coercive power that must be checked; RDs believe that private-sector entities can also obtain effective coercive power and thus must also be checked.)
by G2geek on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 04:43:14 PM PDT
I suggest that a portion of each corporation's board should be elected by the citizens of the county in which the corporation is headquartered.
Alternatively, each county could elect a corporation coordination board whose sole purpose would be to serve as a liaison between the people and all coprorations operating in the county.
I'm sure there are several other ideas out there that could also accomplish this local oversight, but some measure along these lines is needed.
by real democracy on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:24:37 AM PDT
wide narrow
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