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Your comment has nothing to do with what I posted.
It couldn't possibly be because it's near the top of the comments section, could it? Nah, people never do that.
Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower
by Pegasus on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 07:54:45 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
just like my comment.
Because most democratic candidates suck so badly (that is, they've abandoned so much of what it means to be a New Deal Democrat), what we actually end up getting is milquetoast corporate-friendly pukes, e.g., Bill Clinton).
Hillary is just like bill in a pantsuit.
Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it.
"It's the planet, stupid."
by FishOutofWater on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 07:57:26 AM PDT
To quote her husband, "That dog won't hunt!"
by ArgumentAdvocate on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:10:58 AM PDT
and the Clinton team won't be much different than Bill because the hiring of staff determines the direction of the administration. The president accomplishes nothing alone.
And as to the claim about a universal health system care...put down that crack pipe.
by FishOutofWater on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:23:36 AM PDT
Let's also not forget Richard Holbrooke. He, Penn, and McA make a nice trifecta.
Robert Scheer also raised some interesting points. Voting for HRC when one doesn't like milquetoast corporate-friendly pukes* is like voting for K-L when one doesn't want to go to war w/ Iran.
*I say this as someone who despises that species.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?
by RFK Lives on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:38:32 AM PDT
Counter to the Steinam arguement:
If Barack Obama were Running as a Black Candidate, He'd be over before it started
Hillary is the one out and center making this race about Gender. She's the one who pointed in the debate to the fact that being a woman would be a real change.
The Arguement that a Female Barack would be unelectable is BOGUS because if Barack would Run as a Black Man 1st, as Hillary is doing openly, He'd lose all his white crossover vote.
And for a man to fall for this, well, you need to assess your prorities to restoring our democracy. I wouldn't vote for Hillary because she's a woman and I wouldn't vote against her because she's a woman. All of the people in my life I love are Women. Seriously. Women are the Shit.
It's just this candidate, genderless to me because it doesn't affect my vote, is as you so put it, a "Corporate Whore" and that is something our country DOES NEED...
Thank you for being reverse-sexist, i'm sure that's the way to build a better country. Just as Discrimination gave us Bush, Reverse Discrimination will give us Hillary. Nice. What ever happened to issues and bridging divides?
by Steven R on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:20:11 AM PDT
I'm young and "the shit" is a huge complement in Houston Slang...
by Steven R on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:22:17 AM PDT
But it really cuts to the heart of much of the discussion here. There really are differing generational perspectives on some of these sexism issues.
by kosophile on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 12:28:13 PM PDT
could recommend your comment more than once. Well said!
I also readDrugWarRant daily.
by stringer bell on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 06:09:33 PM PDT
If it winds up being Hillary vs. McCain, get ready for 4 more years of Republican rule.
Obama would destroy the Republican opponents, even McCain. You could see the Republicans getting worried after Obama won the Iowa caucus.
This election is not about gender wars, I'm sorry. It's about the future of the Supreme Court, our country, the war in Iraq, the strength of the Democratic congress.
To vote for Hillary just because she is a woman is as stupid as voting for Obama just because he's black. You vote for the best candidate who can WIN.
Old Man McCain.com - the best anti-McCain blog on the web!
by existenz on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:23:43 AM PDT
...government jobs than any President ever, by a factor of about TEN.
Clinton '08 // Putting People First
by Berkeley Vox on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:21:48 AM PDT
Any of our major candidates since the 1990s would do the same.
by chicago jeff on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:30:14 AM PDT
And more blacks in jail.
by stringer bell on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 06:12:48 PM PDT
won't be much different than Bill
I hope you're right!
They burn our children in their wars and grow rich beyond the dreams of avarice.
by Limelite on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 11:23:11 AM PDT
in which case she has experience and should bear the burden for his short-comings, or she wasn't, in which case she doesn't have any special claim on experience. Which is it?
One Million Strong --- Join up!
by psericks on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:30:25 AM PDT
Or are we re-electing her as First Lady, with Bill back in the Oval Office?
If she wants to be her own woman, why is she running on Bill's resume?
by Greuben on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:50:18 AM PDT
A lot of good happened under Clinton:
No war Strong economy Fairer taxation erasing of huge debt
I was very disappointed in Clinton--however, a lot of good was also acccomplished.
Hillary learned a lot about arrogance in the healthcare fiasco--ie, that you have to work with others.
I am taking a 2nd look at her myself. The simplification of the above comment makes me tired. These black/white good/bad oppositions may have amused Derrida and his ilk, but real life is considerably more complicated. I hate Hillary's campaign team. I hate O campaigning with a homophobic minister.
Hillary knows a shitload. So does he. I'm grateful for the rishness of the field. And the coverage of HRC has been appallingly sexist and dismissive.
by MmeVoltaire on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:09:22 AM PDT
I don't like Hillary's campaign team, either. Or Obama campaigning with McClurkin. Or when Bill backed down on some things that he had promised. But life is so much more complicated than that. Give credit where it is due.
by Montague on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:22:02 AM PDT
is black and white? When did I say he didn't accomplish a great deal?
His shortcomings as a leader though are obvious: NAFTA, welfare "reform," health care, his war on crime that led to the highest rate of incarceration in our history along with his embrace of minimum sentencing, the Telecommunications Act, the Defense of Marriage Act.
Clinton was a fine president, I wouldn't exactly choose your examples though. No war under Clinton? Um... How about several? A strong economy? Sure, but Clinton's role is overrated. Silicon Valley drove that growth, not Bill.
Clinton hardly set the gold standard for progressive leadership, and the party was in shambles by the time he left office. We can do better.
by psericks on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 01:12:22 PM PDT
pointed out that it was unprecedented and unseemly for an ex-President to be campaigning against other members of his own party, even in behalf of his spouse. I'd say, especially in behalf of his spouse.
Also, I don't consider it a positive strike for women if it takes her husband (who clearly abused her) to get her elected.
by Heart of the Rockies on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:22:46 AM PDT
Hillary will have noooooo chance in the general (unless the Republican f---s up royally)-- She cannot win Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Arkansas, Virginia, etc. without good African-American turnout.
She won't get that the way her campaign (including surrogates) are running.
by chicago jeff on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:34:43 AM PDT
...the first two years in office. It was Democratic shit-fucks like Dick Gephardt who torpedoed health-care and with it, the Blue majority in congress.
After 1994, Clinton was forced to fight a holding action for 6 years against the most conservative congress in our lifetimes.
Like Bill, Hillary doesn't wear her liberality on her sleeve because she knows that you don't get anything done if you don't get elected. I expect that if she is elected she will be the most aggressively progressive president we've had since Carter...with the backroom savvy of LBJ.
by neoeconomist on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:36:36 AM PDT
When a new prez makes the passage of a GOP-negotiated trade pact that's a total sell-out to corporate America, he is all that is progressive. Nothing like kicking unions and environmentalists in the shins to rally your supporters around your health care plan.
by RFK Lives on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:41:16 AM PDT
Is a rather mild description of this act of hateadvocated by Republicans and given saving cover by the Clinton endorsement. Allowing a million children to live without homes in the midst of this prosperous country is a willful denial of their human rights. expect US citizens to appeal on the behalf of those children to the UN soon. This crass act cannot be swept under the rug. Those million kids just don't fit under any rug.
"Obama. He's redefining what a politician is... take the best from the past, leave the worst back there and go forward into the future " Bob Dylan
by SmithsLastWord on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:56:50 AM PDT
So, you don't think that Hillary learned Bill's lesson from 1992 - 1994, that if you attempt to enact progressive reforms, you'll lose Congress and be "fighting defense" for 6 years?
You don't think Hillary is GUN SHY from that experience?
by Greuben on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:53:50 AM PDT
She's been baptized in fire. The country is different now, too. People thought national healthcare was socialism back then. They know better now. And Hillary realizes it's time that national healthcare CAN get passed.
by Montague on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:24:40 AM PDT
Be the change you want to see in the world.
by empathy on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:31:36 AM PDT
At any rate, I'm going to proceed as though I am. There's power in positive thinking.
by Montague on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:35:39 AM PDT
But I do have faith in Hillary. If Edwards goes out, I am throwing my weight behind Hillary.
Because I do believe in her heart she is somewhat more progressive than she is allowed to show.
I think Bill would have been much more progressive if he hadn't be saddled with that ridiculous Congress and I think Hillary would actually learn from Bill's mistakes and know how to better handle the trouble of manipulating lawmakers to get things done!
dwakeman.blogspot.com
by dwakeman on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:14:58 AM PDT
Edwards dropping out would cease.
I'm not even for him at this point, but this meme line of thinking is just inane nonsense after only two primaries.
On second thought , let's not go to Camelot. 'Tis a silly place
by o the umanity on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:23:58 AM PDT
I mean the fact that guys like Dodd, Richardson and others have gotten out makes sense. They weren't legit candidates anyway.
But Edwards was the VP nominee, he is a real candidate. He has real arguments, real stances, and real support.
It is like barking into a black hole though. Ugh!
by dwakeman on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:28:27 AM PDT
is full of CMSM suckups ;)
Edwards has plenty of support. If Kucinich drops out before the primary in my state (even though FL supposedly 'doesn't count'), JRE has my vote in the primary.
Hell, if this marginalizing shit keeps up much longer, I'm liable to throw my vote to JRE in the primary, too.
This shit is pissing me off today--the spinmeisters are everywhere out here!
by o the umanity on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:34:45 AM PDT
And he wasn't forced. Remember when he vetoed Newt's spending bill? Why did he support NAFTA? He sold out.
Bill & Hillary both gave up after 1994 and decided to "play ball" rather than fight.
The other day I yelled to a friend, "Look! A Unicorn!", to which the Unicorn gave reply: "That's nothing. I saw an undecided centrist voter last year."
by Johnathan Ivan on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:28:48 AM PDT
The mistake that Democrats frequently make. Democrats like to back a losing candidate in order to make some kind of statement. Today it's gender politics. Your thinking is flawed because you live in New York. I live in Tennessee. People here and in MANY parts of the country HATE Hillary with a passion. They don't want her and her husband anywhere NEAR the White House. If she were to somehow win the presidency, there'd be civil war. And I don't think I'm exaggerating.
The bigger point is that people would come out in droves to vote against her. She cannot win. Don't mistake me to say that this would happen to ANY female candidate. I'm all for a female candidate. And I agree that we, as a society, tend to run from the feminine. My point is strictly about Hillary Clinton who is hated with a vitriol that is breathtaking (and it's not just men, conservative women hate her just as much, if not more). Hillary would go down in flames in the general.
by ccr4nine on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:04:56 AM PDT
say hello to the McCain Administration.
Grandpa is mean and he smells funny.
by MadAsHellMaddie on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:07:55 AM PDT
Your argument doesn't hold water. She won in New Hampshire, didn't she? She's electable. Let the race play out.
by Antifish on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:26:31 AM PDT
male relatives that have shockingly (to me) told me that they are supporting Clinton. They feel she is more qualified/ready than Obama and that Edwards can't win the primary.
Now in the general, I agree McCain will win this state even though the last poll I saw had all three of our candidates beating him.
by tabbycat in tenn on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:29:17 AM PDT
but you'd be in la la land if you thought there wasn't extreme animus against Clinton in TN and many other states.
by ccr4nine on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 01:24:13 PM PDT
and it might come true.
The slavering wingnuts will indeed be out in force. But you know what, they are around 30% of the population. Those are the only people who hate her "with a vitriol that is breathtaking." Some moderate repubs and a lot of independents think they don't like her right now because they keep hearing how "unlikeable" she is from the MSM and the wingnuts, but when they get to see more of her in the general election, they'll like her just fine. And every Democrat had better support our nominee, whoever that is.
I used to say "Hillary can't win" but talking to other people in my swing state changed my mind. I've talked to plenty of indies, lots of socialists, and a few repubs. Whenever they say "I don't like Hillary" I calmly tell them what her policies are and how those would help the country and how she has stood up to the meanies for decades. They listen. Maybe I didn't convince them yet, but at least I didn't repeat a RW talking point.
by Montague on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:31:24 AM PDT
if she was Bill I'd vote for her.
I am the Typo Queen. Apologies in advance.
by sadpanda on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:12:48 AM PDT
WalMart? And part of an establishment Arkansas law firm?
Not exactly progressive credentials in my book.
by Heart of the Rockies on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:15:50 AM PDT
Happens sometimes.
Well I've been from Tucson to Tucumcari... Tehachapi to Tonopah--Lowell George/Little Feat
by frandor55 on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:02:15 AM PDT
wide narrow
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